Fish NOT for the Beginner

[MonoSebaelover]

I've compiled a list that of fish that should not be kept by beginners and the reasons why, so here goes:

Cleaner Wrasses-Based on stomach contents, cleaner wrasses eat larger parasites such as copepods and isopods. There's no evidence that they eat cryptocaryon, though. If anything, this is yet another good reason not to have them. They don't eat ich, so don't buy them expecting to control it. They also play a huge part in the oceans ecosystem. Thanks mogurnda!

Moorish Idols- Very poor success rate and is best left to the experienced people or in the Ocean. If you want a look a like go for the poor Man's Moorish (Bannerfish)

Parrotfish- Eat foods not available to hobbyists (available but they will only eat acropora corals which adds up very quickly) plus very active swimmers and need huge tanks (7ft long plus)

Sharks and Remoras- Remoras occur on Sharks in the wild and Sharks need huge tanks of 200g plus so definitely not for the beginner.

Orange Spot Filefish-only eat corals and even once feeding most die.

Panther Grouper- look adorable as babies but soon grow to a 2 foot unattractive monster. (their heads stop growing and their bodie keep growing)

Sweetlips and Batfish- grow to 2 feet and the juvies are very difficult to keep alive.

Boston Beans-Long Horn Cowfish- grow from that cute tiny fish to well over 2 feet. They are also known for exuding a toxin that can wipe out tanks if they are stressed or dying. Best left with those with big tanks.

My favorite: The Ribbon Eels- although gorgeous I have rescued 3 from near starvation and death. They are NOT easy by any stretch of the mind so PLEASE do not try these.

Seahorses and Pipefish- Very very difficult to keep, need perfect water quality, feedings at least 3 times a day and practically no tankmates.

Mandarin Dragonettes (Mandarin Gobies)- very hard to sustain for long by those not experts. Need lots and lots of copepods and the like. Plus need an established tank of a year or more.

Powder Blue Tangs, Achilles Tangs, Clown Tangs- very hard to take care of. Huge ich magnets and some just never adjust. All are extremely aggressive if they do survive and need minimum of 125g.

And finally the Large Triggers: Queens, Blue lines, Titans, Starrys and the small but nasty Undulate- These guys grow to huge sizes (except for the Undulate) and have extremely nasty temperments to go with. They all need a minimum of 200 gallons and 99 percent of the time need to be kept by themselves. Same with the undulates.

Feel free to add more but this is a general list and does not include all. Research should always be done before buying a fish. (Orion-sticky please :) )

[MonoSebaelover]

Here are some more. I was too tired after that post earlier to add these so here are some more:

Purple Queen Anthias- Rarely will accept to eat in captivity and when they do they generally waste away within a month or two. Best left in the ocean.

Green and Giant Morays- Grow to an astounding 6 feet (larger for the giant) and have a VERY nasty temperment to go with. Best left in the ocean.

Napolean Wrasses- also grow to an astounding 6 feet long and best left in the ocean.

Bumble bee Grouper- also grow to an astounding 6 feet long and best left in the ocean.

Live Bearing Brotulas (often seen as Yellow Eel Gobies) extremely shy and hard to get feeding. Best left to experts and the ocean.

Twin Spot Gobies- have to be kept in pairs and rarely sift enough food in captivity to survive so best left in the ocean.

Pilotfish- grow to 3 feet and need to be kept in schools. Very active fish and best kept in the ocean.

Emperor Snapper- grows to 3 feet but is very hardy. If one can accomodate for their size they are great fish.

Stingray (Blue Ribbon-Blue Spot)- very hard to feed in captivity. Generally wastes away if it gets food. Best left in the ocean

Rock Beauty Angel- Feeds on lots of sponge and fish slime when adults. Best left in the ocean and not in captivity.

[redpaulhus]

My $.02

Scooter "blennies" -- basically same problems as Mandarin's, complicated by a very very low retail price.

Rock Beauty Angels - poor survival rate in captivity, needs high volumes of sponge in diet to survive.

(Not a fish, but...) Flame Scallops -- usually starve, seldom live more than a few months in captivity ( need live zooplankton in the rotifer size range). Also, only live 3 years in the wild, and are usually about 2 years old at the size they are collected\imported.

[N8DOGG]

How about a sun fish? Don't they get up to a few tons? I saw them on Discovery channel can't wait to get one..yeah right in my dreams

[MonoSebaelover]

Yes, but what is the chance of seeing a sunfish in a fish store? Few to none of a probability. Most of the fish above one would readily see in a fish store and is enthralled by their beautiful colors. Sunfish don't exactly fit in that catergory!

[Aquatick]

That's a great list MonoSebaelover! :) The only additions I can think of off the top of my head are...

Strawberry Grouper - Simply for the fact that they get too big for most tanks.

ANY filter feeders - I've seen way too many people skunk a tank trying to feed sponges etc etc.... Even if you can follow directions on the bottle, make sure that you have EVERYTHING filterfeeders need to thrive. IE: Proper water conditions, lighting etc...

Invertebrates - Definitely not something you want to throw in your tank first. Not as difficult to care for, but God forbid should one die while you're off on a weekend long trip.

I know these are pretty basic, but I thought I would list them anyway. :)

[TKOS]

That brings up the age old problem of what is a successful fish to keep. Most fish have a life span of at least 4-5 years, though most far surpass that in the wild. When asked how a hard to keep fish is doing many people will reply that they have had lots of success keeping certain fish, that they oftyen make it past the 1 year mark. It is just the same as the old gold fish in a bowl. Wow my goldfish lived to be 3 years old, I think I will keep another one in a bowl.

I would add, though not a fish, anemones. They are a super long lived creature that most people cannot make it past the 6 month mark with, aren't needed for clown fish (often won't get hosted anyway) and are often introduced into small aqauria that have no chance of supporting them long term. Right now we don't know enough about most of the species of anemones and frankly there just aren't enough wild ones out there for beginners to be experimenting with them.

[AW2EOD]

MonoSebaelover, I know you put this in your very first post, but I just wanted to touch on the subject just a little more after very extensive research that I've done.

Sharks...

There are 2 sharks that can live, and be somewhat comfortable in a 150gal. tank. They are the Banded Cat Shark and Marbled Cat Shark. They grow to an average of 40"Very cute, and active as babies, but here are 2 things that the fish store doesnt tell you.

In captivity, 50% to 75% of them die within the first month by starving themselves to death. It's not the owners fault, it's just that naturally, they dont know to start eating. And IF they do eventually eat, it's already too late for them to survive. This happens frequently in the wild as well. They are just incredibly hard to get to eat. Frequently, even force feeding doesnt work (trust me, I've tried). I had my newly hatched Banded Cat Shark for 4 weeks before he died from starvation. My fish store actually told me that it would be hard to get him eating, but I thought..."ahhh, it cant be that hard. He'll eat when he gets hungry.".

The second thing is light. Most fish keepers have decent lighting (florescent) to superb lighting (metal halides, etc.). Sharks require VERY low light. Even florescent is too much for them, that's why they're mainly active at night. What's the fun in keeping a large fish tank that has to have extraordinarily low light?

Other than those 2 species, there are NO other sharks that you can keep in anything less that a 1000gal. to 10,000gal. tank. Alot of people get Horn Sharks...these grow to 6 feet. Blacktip Reef Sharks and Whitetip Reef Sharks, although absolutely gorgeous, can grow to 7+ feet.

[AW2EOD]

The Large Angels, I'm not too familiar with except for the fact that they SHOULD NOT be kept be beginners. They are not a hardy fish and are susceptable to disease. The Imperator reaches a few feet in length and I've never seen a juvenile (5" - 6") for less than $400. There are Dwarf Angels that are somewhat ok, but not easier by any means.

[OrionGirl]

I do have a problem recommending lions to beginners. One basic reason--feeding. While lions will happily adapt to prepared foods, beginners often succumb to the desire to give live food, typically goldies. Since goldies are not nutritious and contribute to vitamin B deficiencies, lions fed primarily on goldfish die very quickly. Not good. If a beginner is willing to make the effort to either locate a good SW food source or train the lion on prepared foods, they are a failry hardy fish. Every lion death I've heard of has been related to either virus issues or malnutrition.

[Hewtonian]

Any obligate corallivores including many butterflies...some of the wrasses...orange-spot filefish........

[caz]

bi-colored angel :) very tough to get to eat sometimes, and not as hardy at LFSs will tell you

[FloridaBoy]

Another for the list: Linckia laevigata, the Blue Linkia starfish, with a mortaility rate over 90 percent, thousands are sold and lost for every one or two that adapt.

[Rsquared333]

It's not a fish but sea apples and cucumbers can have a devistating effect on a system and I know a person would quit the hobby because of them. They are very beautiful and their colors make them a very intersting pick for a begginer. The problem with them is that they have a unique defense mechanism that can wipe out an entire tank. When under poor conditions, rough handling (by you or tankmates), or any sever stress (such as being sucked into a power head which happened to my freind, the person I mention earlier) the sea apple or cucumber will expel its inards through its mouth and anus creating a poisonous cloud that will soon circulate through the tank killing all other tank mates and leave you devistated, heartbroken, and having to start all over. Most would not be able to come back to the hobby after something like this espcially with the emotional and monetary loss. Knowing the pleasures ,rewards , and joys of this amazing hobby I would hate for this to happen to anyone so I would advise against them for any begginer.

[damselmaster]

I am new to saltwater but some friends have tanks and have given me some advie on what to avoid..(from their experience)

'Butterflyes, seahorses, eels, angels, pipefish, and some tangs.

Everything else is undecided.

Some species withh adapt good and some won't. I think alot of people here with 50 species on their list just had bad experiences with a certain fish they had so they are writing them off all together.

Lionfish are a prime example...(almonst every type.) some people will say they are picky and...agressive...and territorial but my friend has 2 in a large tank with clowns...tangs...damsels and even crabs and it was just fine. He also used a dwarf lion to cycle his tank. I have also heard stories of people being uninformed and cycling tanks with 80 dollar butterflys...and they survive and flourish...though I am not a fan of cycling a tank with a living creature...It does save money when you consider all the live rock you would need.

I think its more of a matter of maintaining a good tank (dont even have to be perfect) and crossing your fingers that your lion, trigger , damsel will not be the charlie manson of its kind :).

PS, I have also heard of damels dieing from small flucutaions in nitrate. So I don't think there can be a set rule. SOme species might be more suitable for beginners..but that doesnt mean you can negect them becasue they are "hardy" or "inexpensive".

[FreddytheFish]

I am new to saltwater but some friends have tanks and have given me some advie on what to avoid..(from their experience)

'Butterflyes, seahorses, eels, angels, pipefish, and some tangs.

Everything else is undecided.

Some species withh adapt good and some won't. I think alot of people here with 50 species on their list just had bad experiences with a certain fish they had so they are writing them off all together.

Lionfish are a prime example...(almonst every type.) some people will say they are picky and...agressive...and territorial but my friend has 2 in a large tank with clowns...tangs...damsels and even crabs and it was just fine. He also used a dwarf lion to cycle his tank. I have also heard stories of people being uninformed and cycling tanks with 80 dollar butterflys...and they survive and flourish...though I am not a fan of cycling a tank with a living creature...It does save money when you consider all the live rock you would need.

I think its more of a matter of maintaining a good tank (dont even have to be perfect) and crossing your fingers that your lion, trigger , damsel will not be the charlie manson of its kind :).

PS, I have also heard of damels dieing from small flucutaions in nitrate. So I don't think there can be a set rule. SOme species might be more suitable for beginners..but that doesnt mean you can negect them becasue they are "hardy" or "inexpensive".

the snowflake moray eel is a very hardy fish, and many people consider it good for a beginner. the only thing is they get big and people try to cram one in a 10 gallon cause they buy them when theyre small

[FreddytheFish]

Alright, so its not a fish, but if you are a beginner I'd stay away from octopi. Especially the blue-ring octopus, its bite is lethal to humans.

[itstheantitang]

didn't read whole thread but
All sharks, shark eggs, seahorses

NO jellyfish

[zero]

MonoSebaelover, I know you put this in your very first post, but I just wanted to touch on the subject just a little more after very extensive research that I've done.

Sharks...

There are 2 sharks that can live, and be somewhat comfortable in a 150gal. tank. They are the Banded Cat Shark and Marbled Cat Shark. They grow to an average of 40"Very cute, and active as babies, but here are 2 things that the fish store doesnt tell you.

In captivity, 50% to 75% of them die within the first month by starving themselves to death. It's not the owners fault, it's just that naturally, they dont know to start eating. And IF they do eventually eat, it's already too late for them to survive. This happens frequently in the wild as well. They are just incredibly hard to get to eat. Frequently, even force feeding doesnt work (trust me, I've tried). I had my newly hatched Banded Cat Shark for 4 weeks before he died from starvation. My fish store actually told me that it would be hard to get him eating, but I thought..."ahhh, it cant be that hard. He'll eat when he gets hungry.".

The second thing is light. Most fish keepers have decent lighting (florescent) to superb lighting (metal halides, etc.). Sharks require VERY low light. Even florescent is too much for them, that's why they're mainly active at night. What's the fun in keeping a large fish tank that has to have extraordinarily low light?

Other than those 2 species, there are NO other sharks that you can keep in anything less that a 1000gal. to 10,000gal. tank. Alot of people get Horn Sharks...these grow to 6 feet. Blacktip Reef Sharks and Whitetip Reef Sharks, although absolutely gorgeous, can grow to 7+ feet.

AW2EOD im sorry but i have to disagre with u on somethings. 1. no shark can ever live nicelying in a 150g tank the smallest u could have is 200 and thats just for babys. 2. other then the 2 u listed there are other sharks that can live in smaller homes then 1000g. But i do agrea on most of wut u said sharks should never be in a beginers home.

[mogurnda]

I posted this elsewhere on the site, but it seems to fit well here.

Reef Protection International (http://www.reefprotect.org/index.htm) has been working on this guide for some time, and I just got a note that it was ready for the "beta test." The idea is to provide a pocket-sized list of species that are suitable or unsuitable for aquaria, targeted especially to beginning aquarists who may not know all the issues involved.

Here is a pdf of the guide, which will make a nice little card for carrying to the LFS. http://www.reefprotect.org/images/RPIGuideCvr.jpg (http://www.reefprotect.org/pdf/fish_guide.pdf)

I would encourage people to check out the website and fill out their brief survey so they can get feedback on the guide.

[Squawkbert]

someone mentioned jellyfish - that's right - some people keep them, but in dedicated tanks w/ very specific filtration properties (designed to limit current and ensure safety around lift tubes etc.).

[blackwolfXKAV]

Here are some more. I was too tired after that post earlier to add these so here are some more:
Bumble bee Grouper- also grow to an astounding 6 feet long and best left in the ocean.


Correction, these fish grow to nine feet in the wild, TFH did a great article on them in the DEC. 2006 edition.

(Not that it really makes a difference to the purpose of the article)

[blackwolfXKAV]

I've compiled a list that of fish that should not be kept by beginners and the reasons why, so here goes:

Panther Grouper- look adorable as babies but soon grow to a 2 foot unattractive monster. (their heads stop growing and their bodie keep growing)

Feel free to add more but this is a general list and does not include all. Research should always be done before buying a fish. (Orion-sticky please :) )

Sorry, but again, correction, 36" in adult length.

[sugarat]

Just read through peoples sugestions and would like to add Sea Apples many are sold over here (England) as bright easy to keep additions but normaly die and wipe out most of your tank!

[Reefkid 07]

What about lemonpeel angels? And flashlight fish?

[Reefscape]

What about lemonpeel angels? And flashlight fish?

I would still class them both as the same [edit: as mandarins] with regards to experience and tank maturity needed....

Niko

[Fishieness]

from the experience i have had with my dragonette, they are easy fish to keep. they arent sensitive, dont get ich, etc. however, they do have requirements that are almost necessary for their survival. They need to be supplied with a large amount of pods. an just because you have 100 pounds of live rock doesnt mean you have a lot of pods. I think the experience when purchasing this fish to knowing their limits, habits, and also your tank. some tanks with much less live rock may have millions of pods, but the population is not likely to survive because there arent places for them to breed or hide. Also, especialy when tanks are younge, pod poulations tend to fluctuate a LOT. You need to give the tank time to mature in order for thier numbers to level out at a constant mean. Then if you have enough pods, it can be done pretty easily. In order to have a tank with an established pod population, i would suggest putting these fish in tanks no younger than 1 year (this does not count moving a 5 year old tank to your house and putting a mandarin in the next month). So i would definatly say this fish is not for beginners. because a beginner is goign to have a very new tank. and once they get more experienced, so does their tank to the point that they may be able to keep one. Of course though, they do require great water, as do all fish. But the thing about them that makes them not for beginners is their feeding habits and what they require for them. and that is my outlook on it. :)

[jojo22]

To add to what fishieness said, pods can be added to the tank from cultures available on the net (if interested shoot me a PM I know a great lady that will hook you up with a deal). The benifit of this is that you know the pods are there. The down side is that you still have to give them time to populate the tank, you can't toss in a bottle of pods and go buy a fish that relies on them.

To add to the list any fish in the Syngnathidae family or any type of Cephalopods. Leave these fish alone untill you have a FEW YEARS under your belt and have done the required research.

[krj-1168]

I completely agree - Sharks are not for Beginning Aquarists.

Sharks require perfect water conditions, and a well maintained & stable tank/pond.

While I also agree that no shark can be successful kept for it's entire life in a tank less than 200 gallons. I don't agree that only the Coral Catsharks (Atelomycterus sp.) can be kept in tanks under 1,000 gallons. Bamboos, Epaulettes, and the Horn Shark are often successful kept in tank/ponds in the 300-600 gallon range. These sharks species do require ponds of about a 1,000 gallons or more - if the aquarist is planning on breeding them.

While all active sharks - such as Smoothounds, & the Leopard need ponds/lagoons that are well over 1,000 gallons. Smalll requiems(like the Blacktip Reef) due to the very active nature & the fact that they must to swim in order to breath - need at least tens of thousands of gallons.

[elementkid65]

.

[elementkid65]

just to add-
btw obviously im not a salty
... yet.
BUT i hve seen baby hammer head sharks for sale..
i doubt there would be anyone in this country except seaworld who could hold one.
(australia)
do they get them from the wild?
or are they fakes or some sort of false hammer head shark

[evman333]

cool list man thanks fior the help

[rlf_racing]

Elementkid there is a false hammerhead or dwarf hammerhead called the bonnet head shark. Still part of the hammerhead family.

[Sarra]

Flame Scallops

[nycsicktank]

flame angel fish

[SchizotypalVamp]

Just a correction(not a salty, but they are one of my fav animals) Regular horn sharks grow to 3 ft, port jackson horn sharks to 6. Not sure about the zebra horn sharks, think they are smaller than the reg guys.

[journey0820]

It's not a fish but sea apples and cucumbers can have a devistating effect on a system and I know a person would quit the hobby because of them. They are very beautiful and their colors make them a very intersting pick for a begginer. The problem with them is that they have a unique defense mechanism that can wipe out an entire tank. When under poor conditions, rough handling (by you or tankmates), or any sever stress (such as being sucked into a power head which happened to my freind, the person I mention earlier) the sea apple or cucumber will expel its inards through its mouth and anus creating a poisonous cloud that will soon circulate through the tank killing all other tank mates and leave you devistated, heartbroken, and having to start all over. Most would not be able to come back to the hobby after something like this espcially with the emotional and monetary loss. Knowing the pleasures ,rewards , and joys of this amazing hobby I would hate for this to happen to anyone so I would advise against them for any begginer.

I'm not sure how easy/hard they are to keep but there are some sea cucumbers (pacific?) that do not employ this defense mechanism and are aquarium safe. GREAT sand sifters. If anyone else knows more about how hardy they are...add in.

[saltydunc]

rock beauty angel....i tried one last year.....it ate brine and mysis ok but wouldn't look at the angel formula then after about 6weeks it just died for no apparent reason....it was such a shame it was such a beautiful fish but best left in the ocean.

[saltydunc]

cleaner wrasse......same as the rock beauty angel i had....seemed to eat fine even eating flakes....i even began to think it was a load of rubbish that these fish don't survive long in the aquarium....then after about 6 months it just died suddenly....just like all the experienced SW guys on here said.....so in my opinion best left in the sea where it does a vital job.

[tankanator]

I have some of these fish and I have to disagree with your assessment on some of them
I have a Powder Blue tang and is doing great never had ich, was aggressive when I added fish but I moved the rock work around and everything was fine. In my other tank I have a Mandarin Dragonette and is doing great have had him for about 8 months, I do agree with you on the Achilles Tang and the Moorish Idols had both and did not live long, it was sad and will never do that again. I have to add the Golden Butterfly or Red sea Butterfly not a hardy fish. Other then that I agree with your list.

[AnDr3w]

My cleaner wrasse survived for over a year and a half! Then it was eaten. :(

My question is about why the poster said ribbon eels are hard to keep. Mine eats silver sides and marine cubes, as well as krill, and it filter feeds.

[archer772]

I tend to agree about the ribbon eel, is this the one you have
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_eel

[AnDr3w]

Yup. That's him!

[MonoSebaelover]

I love them and always had great success with them, but as the TITLE reads Fish NOT for the beginner. Ribbon Eels are not a fish with a great success rate so why recommend them for a beginner that is just starting out in the hobby when there are FAR easier Eels such as the Snowflake, Chainlink, Zebra, etc? Lately when I do see Ribbons (which is rare) they are over 70 dollars (back when I kept them they were around 30 for a black or blue), so IMHO it will be a 70 dollar mistake for a beginner and a loss of a Ribbon Eel. They are hard to get to eat and even if you surpass that hurdle they are SO tiny and thin they can get out of most holes in the lid. JMHO!

[Reefscape]

My cleaner wrasse survived for over a year and a half! Then it was eaten. :(

My question is about why the poster said ribbon eels are hard to keep. Mine eats silver sides and marine cubes, as well as krill, and it filter feeds.


Your ribbon eel filter feeds??? Hmmmm....very interesting indeed...

[pufferplof44]

what about cowfish(boxfish)? are those okay for beginners?

[cav]

what about cowfish(boxfish)? are those okay for beginners?

Ild say definately not

[Fishfriend1]

One fish definitely not for beginners (may already been stated) is the Boxfish. Poisonous and semi aggressive also expensive experts shouldn't even take this one home. They also need special foods that a beginner wouldn't like to get. They are hard to breed and will nibble on tube-worms. They also need a large tank. Definitely not for beginners.

[Fishfriend1]

PS the site that sells them even states that only experts aquariums and research labs should buy them and that they will not accept complaint about them. In einglish thats "Its Your Risk".

[<3Oscar]

I'm by no means an expert on SW tanks. However, I have a Mandarin Dragonet that is doing very well in my 90g tank. It's actually improved its health since it first arrived at my home. It's fatter and swims frequently. Though I may have lucked out because mine has no aversion to frozen brine shrimp (must be thawed first). I do not think these fish are difficult to keep if the hobbyist does proper research before purchasing one and has a tank of the right size with plenty of LR. Of course, imo every fish should be researched before adding them to the tank.

[dorkfish]

I'm by no means an expert on SW tanks. However, I have a Mandarin Dragonet that is doing very well in my 90g tank. It's actually improved its health since it first arrived at my home. It's fatter and swims frequently. Though I may have lucked out because mine has no aversion to frozen brine shrimp (must be thawed first). I do not think these fish are difficult to keep if the hobbyist does proper research before purchasing one and has a tank of the right size with plenty of LR. Of course, imo every fish should be researched before adding them to the tank. I would agree here, dragonet's probably are some of the easier fish to keep, but since they do usually(more like always) require a decent pod population to eat, they are not for suitable for young tanks which also means not suitable for beginners (a beginner would just be starting into salwater).

[melissadotson]

i ffed my dragonet frozen coral ffod and he is doing great..now i;m traing him to eat pellet food...

[SubRosa]

There are several species of Dragonets commonly seen and the difficulty of care varies greatly from species to species. Synchiropus picturatus, the Spotted Mandarin are ime the easiest to get to eat non-living foods, while S. splendidus, the Psychedelic or regular old Mandarin are the most difficult. It's all a % thing, some splendidus will eat pellets but I wouldn't bet the house on it happening with one I obtained. A picturatus on the other hand is a much safer bet.