How long will my bacteria be ok in a tank with no fish?

[JamesBenjamin]

We have a 55 gal, that is done cycling, but the fish had some ich (probly due to the fact that it was still cycling at the time)

the fish are in a smaller (easier to medicate) tank right now, they have been for 3-4 days... will my bacteria be ok? or will we risk haveing another mini-cycle?

there's a ton of plants, and some snails in there too...

Thanks!

[ewok]

your risking it......... the bacteria need something to eat.

you quarantined the fish for ich? after they were in the tank? totally useless pretty much. the ich inhabit the substrate also..... the whole tank needs to be dealt with somehow. cure the fish and replace them in the tank and you will get them reinfected by whats in the tank unless you have killed it in there somehow too.

sorry
good luck

[online2]

I thought that if there was no fish in a tank that had ich, that the theront (swarmers) would die with couple day if no host was found. It would be just waiting enough time for all the tomont to have reach the theront stage. I could be wrong though. Can snail get ich?

[slipknottin]

no inverts cant get ick.

boost the temp in the tank to 85 and all the ick will die within 3 days.

[JamesBenjamin]

yes, we've been treating the big tank with the medicine too, and it's pretty warm...

[wetmanNY]

James, slipknottin's got the right drill. The swarmers-- "tomites" --will die without a fish host. Don't medicate the tank, because any medication eliminating the parasitic ciliate, Ichthyophirius multifiliis, will also decimate harmless ciliates like Paramecium that spend their lives gobbling bacteria and green water algae etc.

You can poison bacteria, but you can't easily starve them. They just sit tight and wait for better days. Normal decay processes in the system provide enough NH3 to keep the community going, but if you're feeling sorry for them, just sprinkle a smidgen of flake feeed into the empty tank.

The thing not to do is feed them a taste of bottled ammonia.

ewok, in spite of what you often hear, there's no separate encysted or spore-like life stage for Ich in the substrate or anywhere else away from the host. Just a temperature-dependent reproducing cyst that lasts a matter of hours at aquarium temperatures. There are lots of links to veterinary college and agricultural dept. sites at www.skepticalaquarist.com under "Parasites." And some hobby sites too.

[ewok]

i was unable to recall specifics, so thought it best to err on the side of caution.

[wetmanNY]

...always the wisest course, ewok . You could add some ready-access tabs to your format. Like www.thekrib.com www.aquabotanic.com (for plants) and www.google.com for a quick search before you post.

[Wanda]

wetmanNY -- why do you suggest that one NOT use bottled ammonia to feed the biofilter while all fish are out of the tank?

I've done it (sparingly) several times in the past with no problems (i.e., I make sure that the amount of ammonia I add is converted to nitrAtes within 24 hours, and when I re-stock the tank there is no measurable NH3/4 or NO2.)

It always seemed to me to be a good way to keep a nice, strong biofilter going in a fishless tank. Maybe I overlooking something?

[JamesBenjamin]

Thanks guys! I guess I'll put some flake food in there, so it will keep the bacteria happy, and i'll be sure to test the water before I put the fishes back in.

Thanks!

[wetmanNY]

Wanda you have a light hand with the ammonia. People who aren't as cautious as you sometimes find they have a nitrite spike after dosing NH3 in an established but temporarily fishfree system.

And some folks think that the nitrite-eating strains of nitrifying bacteria are inherently sensitive to ammonia. Part of why they don't get a grip til the NH3 is being all used up by the ammonia-eating bacteria. I can't vouch for this. But sometimes "re-seeding" after the NH4 is at 0 will reduce the nitrite spike and speed the cycling.

Bacteria live at the edge of starvation normally. Any extra nutrient source and they rapidly increase to assimilate it. The population restabilizes at the edge of starvation again.

An established system, with undisturbed rocks, gravel, filtration, maybe even plants, is pretty sturdy. But I may be judging merely from my own setups. I've never run a barebottom isolation tank. Or even an aquarium without plants-- at least not since about 1960...