Home water softener question

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Kall

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Apr 21, 2004
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I finally picked up a GH/KG test since it wasnt included in my Master Kit, and checked my water specs. From the outside faucet, the specs are:

pH: 8.2-8.4
KH: 5 (or 90 ppm)
GH: 10 (or 180 ppm)


My house has a Kenmore water softener that affects everything except the outside faucets, so my inside tap water specs are:

pH: 8.8
KH: 5 (90 ppm)
GH: 0 (and I mean absolutely nothing)

After the water sits for 12-18 hours and gases off, the PH returns to around 8.3 or so. My question is how important is GH in terms of livebearers. I'm planning on stocking my 72G tank with small groups of creamsickle and white mollys, fancy guppies, mickey mouse platys, a group of swordtails and some corys.

All the local stores in our area use the same water so the fish are accustomed to the higher PH, but they dont soften it. I've read that live bearers like slightly basic and slightly harder water, and mine is as soft as can be. Will this hurt my fish? Do any of you use water connected to a household softener?
 
Your fish will be fine. As far as they're concerned, you've actually hardened your water.

Water softners remove Ca++ and Mg++ ions and replace them with Na+ and/or K+ ions. Charges must balance, i.e. you need to add 2 Na+ for every Ca++. The fish are only concerned about the total dissolved solids, or, how many ions you have in solution. So after removing all the Ca++, you've got twice as many Na+ ions. As far as the 'hardness' definition goes, your water is much softer, but as far as number of dissolved solids go, you're higher.

RTR can probably explain it much better than I, but hopefully this can clear things up a little.
 
That was the piece of the puzzle I didnt understand - fish are only concerned with TDS. Now it makes sense (and so does the rest of RTR's article on water chemistry)! Thanks happychem!

So if GH is really only a test of the calcium and magnesium ions in the water, is there another type of test for TDS? Assuming I had a base GH of 180ppm and actually doubled the number of ions (only now its sodium ions) in the water, the water is actually quite "hard" - from a fishy TDS point of view.

Should I try to bypass the softener when I fill the tanks? How many total disolved solids are "too" many for livebearers?
 
I have 8.3 with 10kh, 20GH and they all breed like rabbits. mollies, guppies and platies in a 55 community tank. I need to get rid of some fish but can't seem to talk anyone into taking them. I try to catch the fry small enough to feed to my giant danio's or congo tetras but the little suckers are fast and too small to keep track of, not to mention too much cover to hide in. Kyle
 
happychem covered it just fine.

For most tank situations of FO, GH is not of major importance. For planted tanks, the use of KCl rather than NaCl in the exchanger may be preferable and some Ca/Mg supplement is needed as well. If you keep shrimp or other crustaceans, or snails or other mollusks, you do need to have some Ca++, Mg++ in the water also.
 
can anyone state this without so many abbreviations... and maybe in little simpler terms.

I have a friend (older guy, hes in his 70's) who has just moved into a home with well water... there is water softner sysytem in the home. I ask him about alkilinity and such but he wasnt sure... he seems to come from a different era of fish keeping and is definately not an internet guy so I am just trying to help, he got a couple of books from the library but you would need to understand them before reading them (so how could that help someone who has no clue?)

anyway the big problem is that he has a ph of 5.0-5.3 and fish seem very stressed. He has a 200g tank with a Pacu? I think and three oscars in a 100g, he a 55 gallon gold fish tank and 1 other with assorted communtiy fish.

the bottom line is he needs helo and id like to help him if I can...

RTR & Happychem... the two of you have a wealth of knowkedge... what question do I need to ask to help you more accurately understand the situation? What needs to be tested? What can be done?

Thanks your help!
 
Test KH from the tap and pH after sitting in a shallow bowl overnight. That's an exceptionally low pH!

Abbreviations:
FO = Fish Only
GH = General Hardness
KH = Carbonate Hardness/Alkalinity
Na = Sodium
K = Potassium
Mg = Magnesium
Ca = Calcium
Cl = Chloride
TDS = Total Dissolved Solids
 
Have you personally tested the old timers water or are you going by what he has said? I know you can use crushed coral in a filter bag to raise Ph but if in fact the Ph is THAT low, I don't exactly know how much coral to use to get a SAFE steady Ph increase.
 
No I have not personally tested his water... I am just going on what he said.

I am meeting with him this weekend to try and help... thanks for the info...
 
If the pH stays that low, I think that this is more in the realm of pre-mixing with baking soda/powder to bring the pH and KH up into a more reasonable level. I think that a pH that acidic may even be low enough to harm the nitrifying colonies.
 
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