Post-Ich (Ick) Fallout

B

brendanh

Fishmaster Flash
May 12, 2004
38
0
0
Northern California
www.buddypunch.org
Hi everyone, first post here.

I'm not new to fishkeeping, but it's been a few years since I've started up a tank from scratch. Here's the issue:

I got my hands on a 29g that I want to house some african cichlids, maybe 6 of the smaller variety. I've got 2 Penguin 170 biowheels on there, because I'll probably be overcrowding to avoid aggression, and need the flow throughput.

Anyway, I got the whole bugger set up, removed the chloramine, and went to the LFS to get some cycle-fish (please nobody get upset about a fishy cycle). They sold me 6 blackfin tetras, and I dumped em in there and closely monitored the NH3 and NO2 levels, doing water changes as necessary to keep NO2 below 0.25 ppm and NH3 below 1 ppm. pH is stable at 7.9, a bit high because of the crushed coral substrate.

The 3rd day I had these tetras 2 of them had visible ick. When I went back to the LFS, the whole tank I bought them out of was quarantined. Oops.

So the LFS gave me some free Jungle Ick Clear to pop in there. I put it in and removed the filter carbon, cranked the temp up to 82F and put 1 tbsp salt per 5 g in there. Well, the stress of the cycling + the ick that they pretty much came with caused a :sad 50% mortality rate overnight, so I water changed out the ick clear and just kept the temp up and the salt up.

The other 3 didn't make it, each coming down with a nasty case of gill bleeding + ick, and now I've got an empty partially cycled tank with (probably) little ick dudes. The LFS will make good on the fish and will give me store credit, so that's no problem. Here's the deal:

I need to finish cycling the tank, so i left a dead (ew) fish in there to feed the nitrifying bacteria. Plus, I got impatient and dumped in some "Cycle". I'll check the levels again tomorow and the next day. MOST of the ick clear has been filtered out. I added the carbon back to do this, plus water changes.

Here are my questions:

How long do I wait before introducing new fish? After it finishes cycling?

Will residual meds (victoria green, VERY low conc) delay cycling?

Is leaving the fish carcas in there to feed the bacteria a good idea, bad idea, or just morbid?

Sorry for the long post, tried to get all the info in to avoid clarifications.

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
Myself, I'd break the tank down, dry it out, and start from scratch. Too many things going on in the tank to sort them all out.
Just my $.02.
Others may offer a different solution.

Bill in WI
 
I wouldn't think any tetra would be good for cycling since most of them are not too hardy. something like a zebra danio is usually the fish of choice for cycling. On top of this, most ick medications (in my experience) end up killing more fish than the ick, especially tetras. I find it more likely yours died from the medication than from the ick or the ammonia but you can never tell. I'm really not knowledgable on the ick parasite so I may be way off here but here is what I think sounds like a plausable idea: remove the dead fish and do a real good vacuum and 100% (or as close to it as you can) water change. refill the tank, add some salt and crank up the heat as high as your heater will go. The heat should either speed up their growth or kill them off and the salt and lack of food (other fish) should make them die out. After a week I think you could do another 100% water change and add some zebra danio's to start all over. the only other option I'd feel safe with is what RioXingu said about tearing it down but I don't know if the ick parasite can live in the substrate during cleaning or if it would die. Kyle
 
I ditto Rioxingu, ditch everything and start fresh.

Hot water and Oxyclean would probably kill ich. Clean everything, ditch the substrate (if you can afford to, otherwise clean it w/ hot water and oxyclean). I'd let the tank and stubstrate air dry for a few days to make sure the ich is dead (pretty sure ich can't live out of water...). Then start a whole new cycle with everyone's favorite fishy cycling fish - zebra danios. I cycled my tank with 4 of them, and they stuck around for 2 1/2 years!!! They are hearty, fun, zippy fish.

Good luck buddy

~Tara
 
Thanks for the replies. I think I'm going to do a 50% water change per day for the next couple of days, crank it up to 86 or 88F, and let it run for a week. Then I'll get some danios. Starting from scratch will be a real produciton in my office, where people are already getting annoyed at the constant scurrying about with buckets of water.
 
I agree with the others that a clean break down would be best, but since that's maybe not the most practical method for your situation I'd pretty much do what you are doing. Raising the temp into the mid 80's will spead up the ick cycle. Plus with no fish in the tank, they cannot complete their lifecycle.

I'd swap in some fresh batches of carbon into the filter a few times to help clear out the meds. And lastly, wait more than one week, preferably at least two. The last thing you want is another occurence of ick.

As per leaving the dead fish in the aquarium in a work environment - definitely morbid! :p
 
If you boost the temp to 86, and run it this way for 2 weeks, the ich parasite will be killed, both by the heat and the lack of a host. I'd give it the full 2 weeks, to be on the safe side.

Many medications will hamper the bacteria, so getting it out with water changes and carbon will help out. The dead fish will indeed provide ample ammonia for the cycle--SW setups are often cycled with a cocktail shrimp from the deli. Be prepared for some cranky office mates though, as this tends to stink. A lot. You can pull the dead fish out once you test a good spike--I'd probably look for at least 3ppm, but wouldn't be surprised if it never got that high, given that there are at least some bacteria in there. At the end of the two weeks heat/salt treatment, you may want to do a large water change to drop the temp and lower nitrates. You'll want to be careful acclimating new fish, since they likely will not be used to any salt at all, and your tank will still have some.

With the first batch, find a reliable LFS, and put a down payment on the fish or have them hold them for you for a few days. You might also want to setup a quarantine system (possibly at home, if there's no room in your office), and quarantine all fish.
 
Thanks for the great post OrionGirl. The temp is at 86, and we're looking good.

It concerns me that even with ample care and water changes, they couldnt pull through the cycle. Like others said, maybe the medication did more harm than good. Most of the diseased fish at the LFS seemed to have made it, though.

Is there anything else anyone could think of that may have tainted the tapwater besides chloramine (which was, of course, removed)? I'd hate for a repeat performance, even with healthy fish this time.

Unfortunately I'm bound to the LFS that sold me the diseased fish if I want replacements or store credit. A refund doesn't look likely, but I'm sure I could duke it out with the manager if I have to. They have a set of 5 or 6 Malawi (sp) cichlids I'm eyeing up, and if I buy them now and leave them in the LFS tanks for two weeks, I certainly can monitor their health. As far as pricing, does $8.99 for 2 Malawis sound about right? I heard for the grapevine that the place I go has questionable pricing.
 
There are a few things that can show up in tapwater that will cuase problems, but most of these will either cause immediate problems, or aren't lethal, just contribute to other ailments. Keep in mind that the fish in your tank had been stressed more than those at the store--a bit of ammonia, in addition to the stress of being caught, bagged up, etc. All this could easily reduce their immune system enough to make ich or the medication deadly.

Can't help on the cost of the Malawis--I don't have any cichlids. Sorry! I'm sure someone in the cichlid forum would be able to offer you some guidance there.
 
Update:

I just got back from out of town. I have a decaying fish carcass in there, gross! But my NH3 is at 0 ppm, and my nitrite is high. Unfortunately I'm using the "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Freshwater Master Test Kit" and the 0.5 and 5.0 ppm levels of nitrite look the exact same to me. pH is 8.2. Not to worry, I've got crushed coral in there now waiting out my african cichlids.

Is it time to remove the dead fish and wait out the nitrite, or do I keep him in there for more cycling action?

Edit: Well, holding it up to the light it looks like 2 ppm nitrite. Either way, I'll be able to tell when it's 0.
 
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