I am currently in the middle of a fishless cycle on a 46g. I had the ammonia dosed to about 4 ppm. Recently nitrites have been starting to show up, which makes me think the tank is starting to cycle and I am doing things correctly. I was wondering, would putting in plants help the cycle speed up (I am very anxious to put fish in). Also I am worried that the high ammonia levels (around 4 ppm) would hurt or kill the plants. I have never had real plants in a tank before so I am really uncertain as to how they would affect the cycle. Thanks in advance for any info given.
do plants during fishless cycle help?
- Thread starter jujubee
- Start date
Plants use ammonia as their preferred source of N, so I don't think that the levels in your tank would harm the plant. However, adding plants is counterproductive to cycling since they take up ammonia and outcompete the nitrifiers.
The net result is the nitrification colony you've been building up will shrink in size due to less food.
Although, I've don't think I've ever read about anyone doing a fishless cycle with plants already in place, i.e. adding enough ammonia daily to bring the level to 5ppm.
The net result is the nitrification colony you've been building up will shrink in size due to less food.
Although, I've don't think I've ever read about anyone doing a fishless cycle with plants already in place, i.e. adding enough ammonia daily to bring the level to 5ppm.
I just did a fishless cycle with some plants and some snails in the tank, I don't reccomend it As Happychem said the plants will be fine, because they use the ammonia. If you keep enough ammonia for the cycle to estabilish ( in other words add all the time) you will be rewarded with every type of algea you've ever heard of plus a couple of new ones you didn't know existed. The algea wasn't a problem for me personally and there was more than one experiment going on for me during the fishless cycle, but most folks try to avoid it. I also just did a plant cycle, which essentially means adding a lot of plants, and then adding your fish right away. the plants will eat up the ammonia and keep your fish happy and healthy. If I understand it correctly, the bacteria will eventually estabilish themselves, but won't do so in great numbers as the plants outcompete them for the available ammonia. I know the planted tank worked well for me with a huge fishload the day after the plants were set. Just make sure yu have healthy plants and adequate light. BTW my plant tank is low tech, 1.5 wpg, dose twice a week with flourish, and growth is great so far, but I'm using a lot of crypts, java fern, Java moss, some vals and one stand of anarchis. Nothing too difficult.
jujubee,
I should add a couple of things that may clarify some of the info out there. While nitrifying bacteria does live on everything in a tank, Plants from an estabilished tank don't add a lot of bacteria, so they aren't very effecient at jump starting a cycle, but the every little bit helps philosophy does include them. I've been told ( and it makes sense) that potted plants will help seed a cycle, because the wool like stuff they are potted in is a great place for bacteria to colonise. This also means if you use potted plants you need to keep the wool like stuff in the tank in order to benefit. I bought several potted plants, and went ahead and unpotted them and planted them but I put the wool in a filter bag and left it hanging in my tank for a week just to get the bacteria seed I desired. once again it's arbitrary how much this will help since the plants outcompete the bacteria for ammonia, and a heavily planted tank as I understand it is very light on nitrifying bacteria.
HTH
I should add a couple of things that may clarify some of the info out there. While nitrifying bacteria does live on everything in a tank, Plants from an estabilished tank don't add a lot of bacteria, so they aren't very effecient at jump starting a cycle, but the every little bit helps philosophy does include them. I've been told ( and it makes sense) that potted plants will help seed a cycle, because the wool like stuff they are potted in is a great place for bacteria to colonise. This also means if you use potted plants you need to keep the wool like stuff in the tank in order to benefit. I bought several potted plants, and went ahead and unpotted them and planted them but I put the wool in a filter bag and left it hanging in my tank for a week just to get the bacteria seed I desired. once again it's arbitrary how much this will help since the plants outcompete the bacteria for ammonia, and a heavily planted tank as I understand it is very light on nitrifying bacteria.
HTH
disagree
Adding plants adds a lot of bacteria to the tank due to the large surface areas involved, think about every leaf and the square inches involved. That rock wool is full of fertilzers and that alone can create an algae problem as it is released into the water column. You ought to remove all the wool and not let it get into the tank.
Adding plants to a half-done cycle won't help much, for the plants do not consume nitrite at all. Plus, the plants are likely to come in with some algae and the ammonia added is likely to trigger an algae bloom as the algae can respond faster than plants that will be in some degree of shock for a short time.
Really, ideally, if you are going to have a planted tank, it is best to plant the plants, then run the tank for a few weeks WITHOUT fish or fish food or any ammonia source.
The plants will put out roots everywhere looking for nutrients -- I had wisteria with a cloud of roots emerging from the gravel looking for nutrients. Then I added root ferts and algae eating fish and shrimp. Then I added some trace ferts to the water. Finally, I added fish and began feeding and later adding nitrates.
In the planted tank, you don't need to add ammonia at all. You have some plant parts decaying due to the changing environment and that adds ammonia, lightly, and the growing plants consume that promptly. The biofilter does eventually get established, but more as a mechanical filter to trap plant bits where they decay. I hardly even clean some of my plant tank filters, those with intakes off of the gravel are very, very clean.
There is a lot of info at Chuck Gadd's site on how to do this, I can tell you it works!
The bottom line is you can do a "fishless cycle" -- adding ammonia to a tank with no fihs or plants, or a "silent cycle" -- adding plants and then later adding fish, and it is better to allow the plants to get well establilshed before you add those fish, but you shouldn't add ammonia to planted tanks.
Adding plants adds a lot of bacteria to the tank due to the large surface areas involved, think about every leaf and the square inches involved. That rock wool is full of fertilzers and that alone can create an algae problem as it is released into the water column. You ought to remove all the wool and not let it get into the tank.
Adding plants to a half-done cycle won't help much, for the plants do not consume nitrite at all. Plus, the plants are likely to come in with some algae and the ammonia added is likely to trigger an algae bloom as the algae can respond faster than plants that will be in some degree of shock for a short time.
Really, ideally, if you are going to have a planted tank, it is best to plant the plants, then run the tank for a few weeks WITHOUT fish or fish food or any ammonia source.
The plants will put out roots everywhere looking for nutrients -- I had wisteria with a cloud of roots emerging from the gravel looking for nutrients. Then I added root ferts and algae eating fish and shrimp. Then I added some trace ferts to the water. Finally, I added fish and began feeding and later adding nitrates.
In the planted tank, you don't need to add ammonia at all. You have some plant parts decaying due to the changing environment and that adds ammonia, lightly, and the growing plants consume that promptly. The biofilter does eventually get established, but more as a mechanical filter to trap plant bits where they decay. I hardly even clean some of my plant tank filters, those with intakes off of the gravel are very, very clean.
There is a lot of info at Chuck Gadd's site on how to do this, I can tell you it works!
The bottom line is you can do a "fishless cycle" -- adding ammonia to a tank with no fihs or plants, or a "silent cycle" -- adding plants and then later adding fish, and it is better to allow the plants to get well establilshed before you add those fish, but you shouldn't add ammonia to planted tanks.
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I re-disagree
Plant leaves have a very small surface area to volume ratio compared to things like filter sponges or even gravel. But I agree about the rock wool in principle. But a rinsing in old tank water or dechlorinated tap water should deal with the ferts while leaving bacteria untouched.
Adding plants to a half-done cycle would be counter productive, they do not take up NO2, but they do take up NH3, which prevents ammonia oxidizers from making NO2.
The process anona suggests is definitely a good one. Start with fast growing stem plants and add only root ferts to start. Let the plants establish themselves.
Definitely check out Chuck Gadd's website if you're interested in a planted tank.
Plant leaves have a very small surface area to volume ratio compared to things like filter sponges or even gravel. But I agree about the rock wool in principle. But a rinsing in old tank water or dechlorinated tap water should deal with the ferts while leaving bacteria untouched.
Adding plants to a half-done cycle would be counter productive, they do not take up NO2, but they do take up NH3, which prevents ammonia oxidizers from making NO2.
The process anona suggests is definitely a good one. Start with fast growing stem plants and add only root ferts to start. Let the plants establish themselves.
Definitely check out Chuck Gadd's website if you're interested in a planted tank.
Apples and oranges...
Heavily planted tanks do not need to be fishlessly cycled. The plants, once settled in and actively metabolizing again, will keep the ammonia under control.
Tanks to be only lightly planted should be fishlessly cycled prior to planting IMHO. Establish your biofilter, then if/when the plants eat some to the fish-produced and microbe-produced ammonia and it cuts dow the colony a tad, there is still no detectable ammonia/nitrite in the water column. Using ammonia in planted tanks is the ultimate invitation to alage.
Fishless cycling as offered and popularized by Chris Cow suggested potted hydroponically grown plants as a bacteria souce for those having no other available source. It does work fine, but the plant is in effect excess baggage - what counts is the bacteria in the rock wool.
In other words, daveedka got it right.
Heavily planted tanks do not need to be fishlessly cycled. The plants, once settled in and actively metabolizing again, will keep the ammonia under control.
Tanks to be only lightly planted should be fishlessly cycled prior to planting IMHO. Establish your biofilter, then if/when the plants eat some to the fish-produced and microbe-produced ammonia and it cuts dow the colony a tad, there is still no detectable ammonia/nitrite in the water column. Using ammonia in planted tanks is the ultimate invitation to alage.
Fishless cycling as offered and popularized by Chris Cow suggested potted hydroponically grown plants as a bacteria souce for those having no other available source. It does work fine, but the plant is in effect excess baggage - what counts is the bacteria in the rock wool.
In other words, daveedka got it right.
is there any more information you guys have on "silent cycling" or whatever you called it.. ina heavily planted tank? that seems really interesting!
EDIT: nevermind!! i found chuck gadd's website!
EDIT: nevermind!! i found chuck gadd's website!
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Hey anonapersona - I am no more immune to doing dumb things than the freshest newbie. Some things I have a grip on, others I don't. But the things I do understand I tend to have worked on and researched and tested enough to have some depth of understanding of the principles involved.
If that only provided a buffer against doing dumb things I would be set, but it doesn't.
If that only provided a buffer against doing dumb things I would be set, but it doesn't.