Jack D and RD-possible mating?

[undertow]

:) Im very excited for a buddy of mine.
The above mentioned fish reside in a 90g. RD is about 8in", w/ the Jack about 7".


In the center of the tank he has a pile of rocks. The 'pair' defends this area vigilantly. Both the partners have there ovipositors(??don't know if that's the correct term) exposed. The JD's is slightly larger than the Red.


From what I can tell, the Jack is the one that lays the eggs. I say that cause visually you can't see any eggs. The rock setup is an odd shape and he has sand for substrate, so it makes finding the eggs difficult. They also seem to take turns fanning the 'eggs'.


Contrary to my previous statement about hybrids- Im thrilled at what could possibly be taking place. Watching this has given me a different perspective on the issue. If all goes well, he plans on selling most of the fry to a reputable LFS. And of course, I would get one or two just cause im special!:D

[Tiger15]

Absolutely, JD and RD can cross breed. All CA are decendents from one lineage, Cichlasomine, and will cross breed, just like all Malawyan cichlids are from Haplochromine and will cross breed.

[Mr.Bass]

Originally posted by undertow
:) If all goes well, he plans on selling most of the fry to a reputable LFS. No "reputable" LFS would pay for JDxRD hybrid fry. One might take them in for free and immediately feed them to a tank full of oscars! But pay for them? Never!

[Frameshift]

Keep one or two and use the rest for fish food. What ever LFS you traded them to would most likely mislable them, and there is a chance the fish from mixed lineage could make it onto the market under a diff. name and screw fishkeepers trying to get a "pure" species.

[vfrex]

I'm suprised. I thought cichlid spawns usually involve fighting. I don't think a dempsey could hold its own to a red devil. So yeah, it would probably be a good idea to keep a close idea on this pair. Maybe even implement one of mojo's "love doors" in case the red devil decides to get nasty.

[palehorse78]

I BET THOSE ARE GOING RTO BE SOME MEAN FISH

[undertow]

I was at his house earlier tonight, and they where locking jaws. But, I didn't see any scarring going on. Although it seems mild at this point, he plans on setting up a barricade if it gets any worse.

Also the RD was doing a lot of shaking and shimmying. Intense cleaning of the rocks is being done by both fish. Im surprised that we havn't seen any eggs yet. Can someone post a pic of a female RD w/ a large nuchal hump? I have a feeling his RD is a female, even though its hump is forming nicely....

[oscarlvr]

even thow i own cross breed fish, i do know what they are, this is the one point i do disagree with is the selling of these fish, the buyer will not get what he's paying for, enjoy the fish yourself but please dont resell them. like mentioned above no reputable lfs would resell them and use them for feeders, but how many lfs are reputable.


good luck

[vfrex]

Mojo's females have humps...

http://www.aquamojo.com/reddevil/Midas%206.jpg

[Tiger15]

I would raise a few youngs and see how they will turn out. The red devel will provide the red color and hump and the JD the blue pearl spots.

There is nothing wrong with hybridizing if you just keep them for yourselves or have a goal to develop certain traits or look. Discus breeders are doing it with pride and Firehorn is a big deal in Asia. It's bad if it is random hybridizing that lower the quality . So don't sell them to pet shop to contaminated the gene pool. I hate to start another thread on hybrid morality but domesticated animals and plants are full of hybrid and inetably will genectically deviate from the wild genotypes over time.

[Harry Tolen]

Once again, I fear we are confusing "line bred" with "hybrid". While there are certainly a few animals (mules, for example) that are actual hybrids, most genetically modified animals are just members of the same species bred back to their own bloodlines in order to emphasize certain naturally occurring traits.

There is no telling what you might get from the interbreeding of a JD and an RD. The eggs might never be fertile, you might get nothing but a batch of deformed "culls", or you might pick up some combination of the traits of the parent species. However, they will not breed true, and the second and third generations will almost certainly exhibit symptoms of genetic degeneration leading to early death.

I know, because I've had an experiment of my own running with this for the last 11 years (note: NO offspring have ever been sold or released beyond my own tanks). The original hybrid was a complete fluke, with two pairs of fish simultaneously breeding in opposite ends of a 125g tank accidentally cross-fertilizing one egg. Since then I have discovered that this hybrid is vigorous and fertile, but that his offspring are completely degenerate. Picture (of the original cross, and an offspring) follows. Can you guess what it's a mix of, and which is the parent?

http://www.harrytolen.com/images/aqua/Hybrid02.JPG

[TTman]

how do u know that ONLY 1 egg got cross fertilized? or if it got cross fertilized at all. u know genetic mutations/variations do occur naturally.


Originally posted by Harry Tolen

The original hybrid was a complete fluke, with two pairs of fish simultaneously breeding in opposite ends of a 125g tank accidentally cross-fertilizing one egg.

[Harry Tolen]

Well, perhaps more than one got cross-fertilized, but only one survived. As it happened, very quickly after this spawning, I moved from an apartment into a townhouse, and in rummaging through the 125g where this all happened found about 10 miscellaneous fry before I drained out the last of the water. I put them together in a 29g in the new house, and this one was different from relatively early on. The others all grew up to be completely normal representatives of their respective species. Which are...

[undertow]

Saw the fish last night. They began grappling and locking jaws after the tank light was turned off. The JD was the more aggressive cichlid in this case. Clamping down hard on the devils lips and staying like that for over 5 minutes!! They where also twisting and writhing there bodies around each other. RD is pretty scarred up-looks like it's time for a 'love-door'!:D

[wayne]

brichardi and juli transcriptus?

[Harry Tolen]

Wayne: very close. It's a cross between N. brichardi and J. marlieri. Again, it's been a great fish -- over 11 years old now and still going strong. I have always kept it in a community Tanganyikan tank and it has always managed to keep breeding, usually with a spare marlieri female, but it's offspring have never shown consistent characteristics. And, although some of them have also been very attractive to look at (in fact, that's one just to the left of the original hybrid), ALL of the offspring have died of old age (or something that looks a lot like it) at a very young age. So hybridization does have its drawbacks.