I always over comlicate things... But better safe then sorry! So here's my Q's.

Neo Sithlord

Neo Sithlord

Nerf Herder
Mar 20, 2004
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Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
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Well I found a Petsmart and did a 2+ hour road trip to check it out since afew folks here said that Petsmart breeds dwarf puffers, which I was interested in keeping. First off I won't be buying any fish from this store the tank conditions weren't up to par and the trip (up to 2.5 hours) just isn't feasable for a few fish that most likely WILL die if the tanks are any indication. Now I would return for the plants they had in stock. It was a pretty wide assortment and the tank they were in looked snail free. They also had black sand in stock for substrait it was about one dollor per pound. Is that a good deal? Seemed better then ordering 60 lbs. of it online then paying shipping (I like to drive so gas prices aren't to important to me). Now if I get this sand I plan on going planted in the end but one step at a time I say. the thing is I need to move my main 29 gallon tank over 4-5 inches and I'd like to replace the pebble substrait with the black sand so I figure I could do it all at the same time. I'd then have enough room to setup my 10 gallon next to it. it's currently next to it but with the filter I bought I can't open the closet just need the few extra inches.
Anyways if I drain water out of the main tank into the ten move the filter from the 29 down to it and also the heater from the 29 could I keep everyone in it for about an hour or so untill I get the 29 up and running? I have 5 Neons, 5 white clouds, 3 bronze cories and a male betta. I can't save any more water then that from the 29 and I doubt I can move it back. So should I start more water changes to bring the water back to the perams of my tap? The tank has been getting them once a week sometimes abit longer for the last 2 months so I'm worried about sudden changes there. Anouther thing the ten was washed with soap and rinced with HOT water alot when I didn't know better and it's been sitting empty ever since about april. What can I do to get the soap residue that might be in there?
Last question. Will this disrupt my cycle? (it's been fully cycled for over a month) NONE of the current substrait will remain ALL of the decorations will go back ASAP as will the filter, heater and fish. the old substrait will be switched into the ten then a fishless cycle will start there untill it finishes then THAT substrait comes out and gets sand then cycled abit more and gets planted and THEN afew fish LOL! I love it!
Ermm ok honestly last thing the sand had on the package that it might raise the Ph abit I'll have to test but if it's a slow Ph rise I'd be ok won't I?
Never accuse me of being short winded :p LOL. Thanks guys!
-Neo SIthlord
 
Let the games begin!!!!
Basically you are thinking pretty straight on this, but you're probably planning more work than you need. Assuming you don't have a UGF, (I don't recall you ever mentioning one) and you do have good filtration, your filter will house plenty of bacteria you could essentially skip the process of transfering gravel twice. Keep the filter wet and don't let it go too long without fresh oxygen, and you should retain enough bacteria to keep from losing your cycle. I would transfer things into the 10, put my existing filter on itget the 20 moved and change out the substrate. Since you are thinking plants, I'd leave the nasty dirty water in it and let it settle, plant your plants (easier to do with no fish in the tank) and put the filter and fish back in. If you are doing weekly water changes, your parrameters shouldn't be vastly different between tank and tap. Ph out of tap often changes some, but you can alleviate this by putting extra water in buckets or a trash can a few days in advance.. Once the 20 is settled out and running, then concentrate on the ten. For it I would either run the filter on the 20 for a week, or steal part of the media from the 20 and put it in the 10. Either method will give your bacteria a jump start then add your ammonia and let it grow.
In all honesty, you can virtually estabilish a new tank cycle in about 2 days if you transfer enough bacteria. the two days would be more to test and make sure than anything.

Tip for old gravel, clean it and then spread it out on newspaper in the garage for a couple of days, to ensure it is completely dried out then bag it up and store/sell/ give it away.
 
black sand

I am a bit concerned about that black sand, if you can get a small amount and test it first, you might spare yourself some headache. It might be marine sand, full of carbonates, that might really make your water hard. Better to know early than late. Transferring fish between soft water and harder water can be shocking to them, although as time goes on the buffering of the new sand may be worn away by normal tank acids.

Can you get a small sample and test with vinegar or better yet, add it to a bucket and fill with water and measure the changes? For plants, flourite, onyx sand, florabase, and eco-complete are good, tahitain moon sand is OK but mighty fine, you can't get very deep of it will go anaerobic, I find my snails don't like it, but the cories do. If Onyx is what you saw, great, but I'd be surprised given the price you quoted. Eco-complete is the blackest of the ones I've mentioned. The moon sand is very black but many dont like how it shows debris. The gravel size of Eco-complete is better, as is Flourite. Lots of people love onyx, the grey tone of it is weird in some lights with too much blue.

You might wash the 10 once more with Oxyclean or with vinegar to cut any soap film that might remain, just to be certain. Both of those rinse clean easily.

With tank water, filter and heater, the fish will be fine in the 10, barebottom, for as long as it takes you to get the big tank to your liking. Just cover the 10 and add some familiar plants or decor to hide in.

Then you can empty the big tank and take your time getting it right.

Daveedka is right about saving the mulm from the old tank, let it settle and add it back to the bottom of the planted tank. If you do choose a gravel or sand that buffers, add a handful of garden peat moss to the mulm before you cover with substrate, these will help balance the buffering.
 
Long Questions

Just a couple things. I've heard here in this forum that some sands clump up and will clog filters. I have no personal experience with this, but be cautious.

As for rinsing out the old aquarium, I always use salt and a sponge. The salt is abrasive enough to remove whatever - algae, soap scum - but dissolves quickly and you of course need to make sure you rinse it thoroughly. It doesn't scratch glass or plastic. Vinegar is an excellent choice as well.

I think your fish would do just fine in a bucket or smaller container for a short period of time while you change out your aquarium(s). I usually put an airstone in the bucket when doing this, just to keep the water moving, and while it probably doesn't actually add a whole lot of dissolved oxygen to the water, it might help a bit. Watch for stress when doing this...if your fish are gasping at the surface for air and such, work faster to get them back in their home.

Last but not least, folks in these forums are wildly enthusiastic about helping with suggestions, some are good and some aren't so great, but it might help if you break your question down into it's component parts. That way, each individual question can be answered/debated at length and in greater detail, than trying to answer everything at once, which rarely applies to other readers' situations. It's just more helpful to everyone, IMHO.
 
I know one was "Tihitan (sp?) Moon Sand" the package did say it would raise the PH something like .5? The other I'm not to sure on I think it was the same typw sand though, but no info on the package. I have hard water where I'm at and my Ph is arround 7.5 I think I'll have to test again. I've been going off of aclimation to the water Ph instead of what the fish would have for Ph in the wild. It's just easier and they all are really healthy right now.


So if I were to get the moon sand how deep should I go? I have some play sand from the local hardware store I was going to use but again I don't know how deep to go? 2 inches is what I've gathered whould be correct. I'm just toying with the idea again unfortunately afew few things have come up which have drained my petty cash so it's a month off again :mad: . Any good references I can look into in the mean time would be very helpfull though.
thanks
-Neo Sithlord
 
To answer afew other Q's asked:

Daveedka I have a hang on back biowheel filter other wise I would have never gone with the sand idea. You'd need a "Liquid sand" filter to do it that way right? Way to advanced for me at this point. I was going to bare bottom the 10 while the 29 was being changed then start on the 10. Right now I hate to say it, I want hte betta out of the 29 and contained in the 10. I just think I could do more with the 29 if he wasn't there. So I'd move some of the rock from the 29 down to the 10 and before that run the filter I bought for the 10 in my 29 untill then. I'm set back afew weeks again so I have time to figure it out.

anonapersona I'd test it out in the store all James Bond style LOL. I have some brown play box sand I was going to use untill I saw the black sand then I started getting ahead of my self LOL. I'll try the Oxiclean or vinegar I rinced the 10 really well after I soaped it but the added cleaning should help out. Still the play sand cost 10 dollors for 50lbs. and I have it already so might as well start there any ways but it'll be a pain to switch sand for sand I think so again I wait.

Leporinus Guy makes sence with the salt to clean in out. In the retraunt I work in with used to use ice cubes, salt and lemon juice to clean the coffee pots at night. Worked really well. I know I'd do better if I didn't blurt my Q's out the way I do I just can't help it. I was looking for some feed back first then I planned on asking more detail Q's later. It's just the way I'm wired. I appreciate all the help I get here it's why I keep coming back.

-Neo Sithlord
 
shallow sand

If you use sand you want it to be more shallow than gravel as it compacts and gets anaerobic and then can make nasty gasses and smells. Larger grain size lets more flow though the gravel and so it can be deeper. If you have live plants, shallow substrate is an issue, it wil limit the plants growth, but if you don' thve live plants, then it wont matter.

The cories will love the sand. When I had a bank of Moon sand in a corner (before it sifted to below the flourite) the cories always parked there. If you separate the sections carefully, you can do sand in sone place and gravel in another, but if they touch they will mix, larger on top.
 
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