Dark Bars On Discus

[clayt101]

Hey, I have 3 discus, all 2-3 inchs. Two that I have had are siblings and have had black vertical bars on them since day one. I recently got a 3rd discus, and now it has the bars too. When it was by itself, he did not have the bars. What do the bars mean? I am hopeing that it means the fish are very happy. :)

[anonapersona]

No, not happy. Not necessarily unhappy, but not happy.

Now, if it turns ALL black, THAT is unhappy.

Keep up the temperature, 84 to 86F, and daily water changes if you can handle it. I do 30% a day, raising young discus, in a somewhat crowded tank feeding 4x/day and siphoning the bottom 2x/day.

I have 23 discus, mostly about 3", more and less, in a 55 Tall. I'll be dividing them pretty soon into two tanks, they will be crowded in just a few more weeks.

[N8DOGG]

I thought there were some discus that did have the vertical bar on them.......is this only on stressed ones?? It can't be I've seen way too many that were healthy and happy...

now if I had a bright red or blue discus that all of a sudden got a black verticle line I would be concerened

[clayt101]

I was reading about them on the internet, and some people say that they just ignore the black bars. I will bring my water temp up a few degree and see if that helps, from 82 to about 84. :dance

[anonapersona]

There are some discus that are bar-less, but most have bars. Most of the time, at least with grown fish, the bars are not showing, except the first bar through the eyes and the last bar though the tail is usually showing. With young fish, the bars are always showing, in-between they are in-between.

My juveniles, now as big as the palm of my hand, are showing bars about half the time now. When the room is quiet and they are calm, almost all of them are without bars, but when they see any activity that might lead to food, like anyone moving within sight, they get bars, I suppose in preparation for competing for food. Only one or two seem to be able to eat without bars showing.

While the temperature is very important, the water changes are even more important. You want to keep the nitrate level down very low, which is hard to do with a fish that eats meaty foods.

Young discus are better in larger groups, they are cichlids and are prone to all the bickering that cichlids are known for. "They say" that you need 6 or more discus to spread out the aggression, for in smaller numbers the smallest will get picked on until he fades away, then the next smallest will be picked on, until only one remains. I don't know if this is always true or just sometimes true, but Ihave a lot of juveniles because of reading that.

[125gJoe]

From what I have read, the "wild" Discus have more pronounced bars on them. They can get darker when agitated..

Here's something interesting..
http://www.chanmingdiscus.com/asian_discus02_content.html

Quote: "Right : After processing the babies with extensive light,the vertical black bar on the body virtually disappeared.
Inset : When Pigeon Blood babies are exposed to prolonged artificial lighting,the black pigmentation will be greatly reduced."

I have never heard of this, but I suppose it could be true..

[clayt101]

Well, I bumped up the temp to 84 degrees. The bars are still showing, but I am not worried. As for water changes, I do about 25% per week. I know the water parameters are fine because I also keep Altum Angels (wild caught) in there, and they are doing great. I do plan on getting 2 additional discus, a red variety, probably pigeon blood, but it really depends on what the LFS can get.

[anonapersona]

As for water changes, I do about 25% per week.

25% per week is not often enough, IMO.

The level of waste in the tank is equal to 1/0.25 = 4 so it is like not changing any water for 4 weeks. If the tank is big enough and the fish are small enough, this might be OK but at normal stocking densities this is dangerous. Expect the fish to start sulking and going dark or some white edges on the tail as it disintigrates with fungus, it takes a while to get to that point of waste concentration. If that happens, do a very large water change to gain some time, or just increase the volume and frequency now. The fish won't grow and will get sick if the water is bad.

Can you do 50% per week (= 2weeks waste)? Or 25% 2 or 3 times per week? 25% every other day means that the max level of waste in the tank is 1/.25 or 4 times 2 days = 8 days waste. So, it'd be like putting the fish in a fresh clean tank of new water and not changing any water for 8 days, which is certanly tolerable for most reasonable stocking levels.

How big is this tank?

[djlen]

As I remember it, the 'bars' on the Discus reflect their mood....not necessarily good or bad. I always paid more attention to their demeanor for signs of stress. If they were unhappy, mine tended to pout and get sort of reclusive.

A question.....where did you guys get your Discus? I'm starting to get the bug again, but have no idea where to look. My LFS's got them, but they don't look that good, and the prices are ridiculous.

Len

[clayt101]

Well, my first 2 came from an LFS. It was an "impulse" purchase. They said that they were already acclimated to our local water, so I figured why not. I was wooried that they might not be able to compete with the other fish for food, but so far it has not been a problem.
My most recent purchase actually came through the classified ads in my local paper. The guy I bought it from said he had it for about a week, but his mother wanted smaller fish. This one too was already acclimated to our harder water.

As for water changes, I may bump it up to about 30% a week. The aquarium is 110 gallon: 4 Altums, 3 Discus, 7 German Rams, 10 Cories, 1 betta, 5 plecos (2 albino ancistrus, 1 baby albino ancistrus, 1 L-134, 1 Goldy)

BTW, what do you consider ridiculous? I got mine for $20 each at the LFS, and $15 through the classified. Some stores around here have much more expensive ones, but they are usually kept at a pH of 6, and I don't want to bother with acclimation.

[PumaWard]

Clay, I agree with anonapersona to an extent. You do need to do more water changes... or, at the very least, increase volume to at least 50% weekly. I do 2X weekly 40% water changes; I would do more except for the possible negative effects on my plants. My discus (1 juv, 1 adult) don't show ill effects from it, BUT, my tank is planted, so some of the problem chemicals are sucked up by the plants (such as nitrate).

Djlen,
I would avoid buying fish from the lfs... most are culls from asia. Great Lakes Discus gets rave reviews over at simply, so you might want to check them out.

[clayt101]

Well I suppose I will start doing larger water changes...up to 50% a week. More that one time a week is pretty much impossible for me :)

[anonapersona]

LOL, I'm glad you will increase the water changes, after I wrote that info on "days of waste" I got to thinking about it and decided that I was uncomfortable with my fish in 3 days waste. I have rather a lot of fish in that tank and though they do not look at all crowded now, they do eat quite a lot. Nitrates at the end of the day were about 15ppm, not too bad, but could be better.

So, I've increased my water changes to 50% per day. I can only age 18 gallons, so I have to use some water straight from the tap. Actually I use the whole bucket, down to the level where the pump starts sucking air, then I turn the hose on into the bucket mixing the new water with the few inches left in the bucket while monitoring the temp and adding dechlor to the bucket. My tap pH is very near the tank pH, though that may change during the winter, so right now I don't need to age the water to allow the pH to settle, the aging I do is really just for allowing the chlorine to gas off and I can treat for that if I need to.

But the fish were looking happy when the water change was over, no stress at all, so I highly recommend the bigger water changes to you also, if the tap water is not much different than the tank water. If the tap pH is very different, you may need to look again at the more frequent water changes.

[anonapersona]

A question.....where did you guys get your Discus? I'm starting to get the bug again, but have no idea where to look. My LFS's got them, but they don't look that good, and the prices are ridiculous.

Len

I got mine from a local breeder, Gulf Coast Discus. I bought them very small and will sell off some before Christmas.

Where are you located? On SimplyDiscus and DiscusAsAHobby you can find many breeders and hobbiests that are breeding or slimming down their stock and selling fish of various sizes.

It is best to go pick out your fish in person if possible, internet sales are tricky as it is hard to establish just what the quality is that you are offered. Some outfits have steller reputations, most keep the best and sell the rest.

[djlen]

Yes, that's been my philosophy on fish period. But especially for Discus, I want to see their body structure and habits in the tank before buying.
I would want to watch them for a while before buying. Can't imagine buying Discus by mail.
I've been to Simply Discus many times, but DiscusAsAHobby is a new one for me. I'll check it out.
Best for me would be to find somebody in S. Jersey or close by.
Thanks for the tip.

Len

[125gJoe]

..... Can't imagine buying Discus by mail.... ..LenCentral Florida might possibly be the worst place to find quality Discus! We got lucky and found our 8 nice Discus from www.adiscusdream.com

Kind of scary buying fish online. I understand that....

Edit:
The website seems to be down -- or maybe they are not around anymore. I think they were in Ohio...

[125gJoe]

Clay, ...., increase volume to at least 50% weekly. ....
We have been doing fine with 30% weekly water changes with R/O water. I'd prefer around 50%, but our R/O water container holds only around 40 gallons.

[PumaWard]

I would want to watch them for a while before buying. Can't imagine buying Discus by mail.

I understand... but often times, buying online is the only way to get them at a good quality. For instance, the nearest hatchery to me is in Conn (wilddiscus.com), and LFS fish are usually less than desirable (more often than not, diseased).

The safest bet would to buy from a reputable breeder. Check out simply and DAAH, most good breeders should be on them as well as any bad breeders anyone's bought from. Like I said, http://www.greatlakesdiscus.com gets rave reviews over at simply. Also, make sure that the breeder will stand behind their fish; many good breeders will.


We have been doing fine with 30% weekly water changes with R/O water. I'd prefer around 50%, but our R/O water container holds only around 40 gallons.

Yeah, I understand that completely. There's not much you can do about it unless you mixed with more tap, or get something that does a bigger job, etc.

[clayt101]

I did my first 50% water change today. I don't think the fish were to wild about it. One of discus turned dark, but has since reverted to his normal coloration with bars. Next week I am going to attempt to keep the temperatures similar to the water that is already in there. :)

[anonapersona]

You must add some minerals back into the RO water, you can't use it alone, it is not at all safe to use all RO water. Either buy something like RO Right or mix some tap water back into the RO water to get a reasonable KH to maintain pH stability.

[125gJoe]

I... ... One of discus turned dark, .... Next week I am going to attempt to keep the temperatures similar to the water that is already in there. :)Guess I forgot to mention the keep water temps as close as possible to the same temperature, or it will stress them.... :thud:

For our fresh R/O water, we use a digital handheld temp gauge. They are not expensive, and get a reading real quick..

[anonapersona]

I just guage the temp by hand. Touch tank water, touch new water, you can tell if it is the same.

I have a bucket that holds most of the water I need for a water change at exactly tank temperature, but I do add some tap water to make the full 50% daily water change as the aging bucket holds 18 gallons, less what the pump misses at the bottom of the bucket, and I need 25 gallons for a water change. Fortunately there is not much difference in pH between the tank and the tap, at least the last time I checked anyhow, that may change come winter.

I worried about the fish getting unaged tap water, but I treat for chlorine as it goes into the nearly empty bucket and they get about 10 gallons of fresh tap with the 15 gallons of aged water. They seem to prefer the larger water changes, tap or not, so since I have been banned from using the 55 gallon drum to store water in the kitchen, this method has to do.

[clayt101]

Unfortunately, I lost the smaller of the 2 sibling discus. I had noticed that it had been getting weaker over the last week, so I had been doing more to feed it individually. I guess the water change put it over the top (although I thinw it probably would have died anyway). As for good news, I snuck into view my aquarium last night, and my newest discus did not have the bars, just like when he was in his own aquarium. Once he saw me; however, the bars came back.