Need Help With Fighting Clowns!

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ForumPete58

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At the adivce of my LFS owner I purchased a yellowstriped maroon clown. It is about the same size (1.5") as the yellowstriped maroon clown that I purchased from the same store a couple weeks ago. Needless to say the first clown I bought hasn't really taken to the new clown. Just as soon as I introduced the new one they started fighting. I know that clowns fight to establish territory but I want them to hopefully mate up. I have broken up their fights with a fish net because I dont want either of them to get seriously injured. What can I do to end this fighting soon and without injury?
Thanks,
Matt
 
I dont have any experience in this sort of thing, so dont take what I say as 100% factual, these are merely my thoughts on it. Being the same size I would think that until one of them backs down and submits they will pretty much continue to fight. Maybe if one was bigger than the other (but not so much so that it could easily/quickly injure or kill the other clown) but it may speed up the process... though granted it will take some time to get one of them a bigger size than the other. Maybe you could get one of those breeder net things and maybe keep them seperated some of the time. I dont know if there is a way to get them mated without any fighting, but maybe keeping them apart for a while, then letting them together to interact a bit. Not sure how good (or bad) of an idea that is, but its all I got. If they can only fight for one hour a day instead of 24 hours a day I would think it would very much lessen the chance of an injury. This would take longer than letting them fight it out like they are now, but seems to be alot safer for them. I have two clowns that are still... sparring with each other, but one is about 20% bigger than the other and most of the time they stick together and play nice, its just the occasional minor altercation still. I dont know if I got lucky or it is the size difference (I also have Ocellaris instead of yellow striped maroons). Maybe this will help a little bit or give you some ideas to try. Either way good luck and hope they pair up real soon for you.

Rick
 
Another thought I had... does the older clown have actual established territory (like that he will chase the other clown out of) or does he/she just not like the new clown anywhere in the tank? If it is actual territory then you could try to rearrange the rockwork (or landmarks of any kind) and disrupt the territory. If enough of the scenery changes it could lessen the aggression from "defending my territory" and maybe change the view of intruder to tankmate... Guess I should ask for maybe a little info on your tank? How big and what kind (fish only, reef, etc...) maybe other fish you have? etc... if there is alot of competition for territory in the tank maybe the older clown has a defensive and aggressive mindset needed to protect his territory from all of the other fish in the tank. Again just my thoughts but maybe enough to give you some ideas.

Rick
 
Thanks Dewey for the response,
The tank is a 55 gallon fish only tank. The only fish besides the two clowns is a small cowfish. The older clown is slightly bigger than the new clown but not much to speak of. Also he hasn't really established any territory, except for his anenome. But I dont think the new clown has even seen the anenome let alone gone near it. The older one just doesn't want the new in the tank at all. Its kind of strange because the older clown will chase the new one around for a few minutes then go back to his anenome like he is regrouping for a while; then go back to tormenting the new clown. He has now bitten off small parts of the new ones fins. The fins and chasing dont concern me to bad, its the attacking of the eyes and gils that worry me.
Thanks,
matt
 
Well if the older one is actually injuring the other fish I dont want to steer you in any wrong direction. All my thoughts were my logical guesses, but my fish have many times gone against what I considered logical. I would personally think about a way to seperate them if it gets to far and you worry about the health of the new clown. Hopefully soon someone with a bit more experience can chime in on their thoughts or ideas (or even hopefully experiences with this situation). My two ideas dont seem to be the best in this situation, but I would still think about a way to keep them apart just in case it goes that far. Good luck

Rick
 
Clown fish are in the same family as Damsel fish, meaning aggressive, territorial, and have an ego which makes them think they are the biggest fish in the world. Clowns and Damsels should be the last inhabitants added to an aquarium, and they should be added at the same time, because once one gets its territory staked, it will try to chase away anything new in its territory (in the terms of just 1, it will claim the whole aquarium as its territory)
 
Here's the deal. Never add a clown that is the same size as the existing clown. A clown left alone becomes a female, and you should add a juvenile who will become a male, her mate. Your clown is now a female, or on the way, and the one you added may be as well.

With clowns in tanks, there is no such thing as territory: you are a mate or you will be harrassed to death. If you are lucky, the fish you just added has not started down the irreversible path to becoming a female. Was the new fish the only, or largest clown in the LFS tank? If it was, it should go back.
 
Maroons are very different from the typical clown (different genus from all the others), and the normal rules do not apply. Maroons are the most violent of the clownfish and almost all pairing attempts that do not take this intoaccount result in dead fish.

Here is the procedure for pairing maroons:
Paring Premnas species clownfish (maroon clownfish):
Pairing maroon clowns is much more problematic than pairing Amphiprion species clownfish. Maroons are notorious for being very aggressive towards other clownfish. They are pretty much fearless and will only back down from an all out fight when presented with the overwhelming threat of death.

Separation Technique:
The only technique I am aware of that works the vast majority of the time with the least amount of damage as possible to use a separation and slow acclimation process to introduce a poetical mate to a maroon clownfish.

First you need to have a large female already established in your tank before trying a pairing. The clownfish should be at least 3” from nose to start of the cardinal fin. Next you will need to do a little preparation before buying a potential mate for your maroon. You need something to securely separate the two fish in the same tank while still allowing the fish to see each other and the new fish to get water flow. You can use a clear plastic specimen container with holes drilled in it for example.

Now go to the LFS and find the smallest juvenile maroon from a community tank that you can find. It should be no larger than 1” nose to start of cardinal fin. Acclimate the new maroon just as you would any other fish. Once the new maroon is acclimated to your tanks water, place the new maroon in the specimen container. Let the two fish see each other, place the specimen container near the females territory. Carefully watch the female’s behavior. If she is trying to attack the new fish thru the container, it is not safe to release the new maroon. Give her time to cool off from the disruption to her tank and addition of a foreign clownfish in her tank.

Now that the female has cooled her temper it is time to try an introduction. Get your favorite fish net ready and release the new maroon to the tank. If the fighting gets too bad you will need to rescue the new maroon and place it back in the container and try the next day. If after three failed attempts you can write off the new maroon as incompatible and you will need a new juvenile to try with.
Click to expand...
- quoted from JHardman (clownfish expert)

Your LFS was completely wrong about how to do this. No real shock there.
 
the normal rules do not apply
Click to expand...
Actually, all the rules regarding dominance and sexual differentiation apply. The difference is that the female is more likely to kill her potential mate before they pair off.
 
True, bad choice of phrasing on my part. The main difference is just that you need to set the scenario such that one of the pair has absolutely no choice but submission. Amphiprion species will submit if they are losing. Premnas species don't submit until they are facing death. By then, it might be too late.
 
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