Ryder Cup

I'm not a fan of golf but it's always nice to see the arrogant one's get spanked! (except of course for Terrel Owens who's on my Fantasy Football team LOL)

cattlegrid_79 said:

It was good to see the better side won the Ryder Cup.

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No denying it, the Euros spanked the US. I was hoping it would at least be close, so that it would be a bit more interesting. Seemed pretty clear from the get-go that the Euros would prevail.

cattlegrid_79 said:

Hal Sutton has to be one of the most arrogant, jumped up people in sport and as for arranging for the whole of the US team to turn up in limousines and then get thrashed. Beautiful.

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I didn't see the limo thing, but it does sound pretty tacky. I don't know that I agree that Hal Sutton is that arrogant, but he is a bit of straight-talkin' cowboy... In the post-match interviews I saw, he was pretty gracious to the European players and admired their skill.

cattlegrid_79 said:

I guess our supporters should have all run on to the green when Monty sunk the winning putt, but that wouldn't really be in the spirit of the game, would it?

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Let it go... that was years ago.

Hat's off to the European players... they played brilliantly! :bowing:

Jim

Ryder Cup - Cause and effect?

Firstly a great win, with some great golf and a truely enjoyable Ryder Cup played in the sprit it was meant to be played in.

But I have a couple of questions, a number of the articles I read have attritbuted the European success to the increased team spirit. The two main points that came to the fore were:

1) The American attitude towards sport (in general) does not particually lean to team sports but is more focused towards individual achievment and therefore when they do come together as a team the cohesion is not there.

2) The second point that has been mentioned is the difference in prize money / status on the American Tour compared with the European tour with the implication that a number of the US players lead such as pampered existence that this detracts from the hunger or desire to win. (I appreciate that some of the Euopean team already participate on the US tour)

I'm not intending to start a bun fight here but was curious on the whether others on the board (specifally US members) felt that either of these fact's were contributory and whether point one is valid? Like I say curiousity as opposed to inflamtory....

I don't know about your second point; there's no doubt the PGA Tour golfers are pampered, but it's hard to know what that does to their desire to win.

Your first point, though, is undoubtedly true to a large extent. While we have many popular team sports, they seem to really be oriented toward the star or marquee players, at least at the pro level. Look at NBA basketball as a great example. Our NBA players got stomped in the Olympics largely because they don't play as a team. NBA basketball is like watching five one-on-one games played simultaneously. Boooooooring!!

I don't think this is an inflammatory topic, just interesting.

Jim

Fishsmurf said:

1) The American attitude towards sport (in general) does not particually lean to team sports but is more focused towards individual achievment and therefore when they do come together as a team the cohesion is not there.

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I agree and disagree with you on number 1. Most American PGA professionals played golf in college, which in large part is a team sport so the exposure is there. On the flip side though, individual achievements are more highly sought after by collegiate players because of future endorsement deals when they turn pro.

2) The second point that has been mentioned is the difference in prize money / status on the American Tour compared with the European tour with the implication that a number of the US players lead such as pampered existence that this detracts from the hunger or desire to win. (I appreciate that some of the Euopean team already participate on the US tour)

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I dont agree on this one. The neat thing about individual sports is that you have to win or do well to take home money. I think this only increase's a players drive to do better. I also dont believe that the US players led anymore of a pampered life then European players do.

Walrus said:

I also dont believe that the US players led anymore of a pampered life then European players do.

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I think you're mistaken... US players are much more pampered. Many own/lease private jets, they are 'comped' luxury cars at every PGA Tour stop, they stay in the finest accomodations. No so for European players; only a handful (2 or 3?) have jets, they don't get complimentary cars, accomodations (and purses) aren't anywhere near US standards.

I don't know if that makes them less competitive golfers, but there is a reason Euro tour players are much more likely come to the US than vice versa...

Jim

I would disagree with the assertion that Americans are not inclined towards team sports in general. Team sports are FAR more popular here than individual sports which pretty much are only showcased at the Triple Crown and during the Olympics. (For discussion purposes, I feel that NASCAR is a team, even though there only be one driver...)

The bigger problem is that golf is an inherently individual game and The Ryder Cup significantly changes how the game is played. Something is similar in the Davis Cup (tennis) and both events have the feel of a made for TV sport, kind of like the X Games for the lilly white set. I follow both sports, play a great deal of tennis, and was a semi-pro caddy for a while, but avoid both the Ryder and Davis cups...

Thanks for the thoughts, like I said this was not a personal belief just the implied reasons in a couple of articles I had read after the conclusion of the event and I wondered if other felt the opinions were justified.
My opinions on the two statements would be:

1) From my point of view I do think the team spirit did have apart to play in this, Sergio Garcia has been quoted as saying he could feel the support of the rest of the team.
This is just my opinion (and being a Brit I am going to be slightly biased ), from the coverage we recieved (which again probably had a European bias) there did seem to a closer sense of camaraderie within the European team. Why this is and the reasons behind it was the point behind my orginal post.....
2) From what I have seen the European Tour, as a whole, does seem to have a more laid back (almost more amateurish) "feel" to it. The prize money and level of reward is lower, however the competitve spirit is still there but level of social interaction between the players both during and after the event seems better.

Whether the reward / lifestyle on either Tour would effect a players desire to win is another question and I think would be directly related to the individual. Whether that person will have the drive to get up on a wet rainy morning to go to the range when they picked up a hug pay cheque two days before, etc etc? is something each person would determine in their own mind.

I do think the team spirit / camaraderie was a factor, although how much of difference it made to the final result would be hard to determine.

Anyhow, just my curiosity and thanks for the responses.