guppy tank of death?? please help

[calimako]

My parents have a 55 gallon freshwater community tank.
inhabitants include 8 neon tetras, 2 serpae tetras, 2 black phatom tetras, and used to have about 10 fancy guppies.. only 1 is alive now.
Water parameters are very good.. ph 7.2. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite.. almost 0 nitrates.. tank is planted nicely with java moss and other plants..
temp is about 80F.. Tank is about 1 year old. The weird thing is, that the guppies just keep dying on me. All the other fish are doing fine. no problems.. but everyday, i find a dead guppy.. and the other ones look all beat up.. torn fins, etc. could it be the tetras are killing them? i thought the tetras i had were community fish.. i went thru 9 guppies already.. what gives?

can someone advise? i wanted to buy more livebearers for the tank (platies and mollies), but now im afraid that these tetras will kill them.. do you think its something else? can it be a disease that just targets guppies? all the other fish seem unaffected.

also these guppies are not all from the same store..

any advice would help.. thanks
calimako

[Gambusia]

That is weird.

How are your tetras doing?

[Lazersniper]

Just because they all came from different local fish stores don't mean they werent' all from the same place. Often times stores in a local area will get their fish from the same place. I.E. All the fish stores around here get their main shipment from the same place. If they want more exotic fish or fish that the other shops don't have they'll order form somewhere else. So the warehouse the guppies could have come from may have had sick fish.

Another problem with guppies now-a-days is the fact that there has been so much inbreeding. They're not as hardy as they use to be. I've had about 50% of the guppies I bought die on me all from different places and even warehouses. No other fish in the tank dead, just them.

Sometimes before death, their tales would look shreaded as well. This was in a tank where their were only guppies. 1 male and the rest female.

Those are the only two I can think of.

[ChEeRs_BiG_EaRs]

they are very sensitive fish, it isnt that uncommon to lose them, especially if they are quite small. its the same as neons, it isnt unusual if some die when you first add them to the aquarium as they are not the hardiest of fish and are easily stressed if not handled correctly.
on the other hand if the fish have been in the aquarium for a long time, i would say that it is quite strange, but would say that the other fish ahve been picking on them, even if they are the same size.
hope this is of some help
Justin

[Peekaboo]

If the guppies are being beat up you should be able to see it happening if you or your parents watch the tank for an hour or so. (Although with just one guppy it may be hard to catch).

I don't know of any guppy-specific disease but it could be they are more sensitive to a disease in the tank. They really aren't hardy like they used to be.

So either cause seems as likely to me.

You should likely try another live-bearer and leave the guppies for a while....'cause no matter what the cause you have a guppy killing machine!

[NatakuTseng]

If the guppies are looking beat up, I will pin my money that its the serpaes doing it. They are notorious fin nippers and all around bad tempered fish when not in groups. Just because the neons and phantoms are tetras doesn't mean that the others will associate with each other. Serpaes are a lot like tiger barbs, if they aren't kept in groups where the fin nipping and picking on can be spread out among the group, they will go after other fish. Guppies are prime targets for fin nippers. I would watch the serpaes very closely. From the sounds of it, its not a disease in the tank, nor is it that the guppies are weak, its simply they are being harassed by the serpaes.

[Blinky]

I second that. I bought 6 serpaes a few years ago, thinking they'd blend into my community, and they were little terrors from day one. I never saw them terrorizing the others, it wasn't until I mentioned my other fish looking nipped and scared to the owner of a LFS that I learned that serpaes can be like teeny pirhannas, given the right conditions.
Since you've only got two, I'd say the serpaes' agression is probably more pronounced than it would be if they were in a larger group, but I wouldn't just add more serpaes to try and overcome the problem - it's probably best to take the serpaes back to the LFS and get some more guppies (unless you like the serpaes better - in that case remove the lone guppy so he doesn't get hurt).
If you want more livebearers, swordtails are often thought of as a little pushy - they could probably hold their own against a couple serpaes since they'll get so much bigger and they're pretty brave, but no guarantees. I'd definitely suggest staying away from sailfin or lyre-tail mollies - those fins are much too tempting for mouthy little serpaes.

[victimizati0n]

your guppys are getting killed because you dont have the proper ammount of tetras in your tank, and they are agressive.

You should add at least 3 of each kind of tetra, and you will see little to no agression.

[calimako]

i thought i was a pretty seasoned freshwater guy, but i had no idea serpae tetras acted like that if not properly schooled. i think you guys are right.. they are chasing some of the fish around.. i think they are actually beating up on some of the phantom tetras.. one looks like its fins are getting nipped bad...

i added more fish to the tank.. 3 more black phantoms, so there are 5 of them, pair of large sailfin mollies, pair of bosemani rainbows, pair of swordtails.. i am going to remove the serpaes and give them back to the lfs.. they only costed me 99 cents each..

i had serpaes in the past and i kept a pair.. they lived a long time and never showed agression.. those and the blackskirt tetras lived the longest.. but i had no idea that they behaved like that..

i have sailfin mollies now so the serpaes need to go. but i notice that the serpaes do not mess with the rather large mollies...

its funny though.. i read up on the serpaes and no website, or lfs informs you that these fish can be agressive if not in schools of 5 or more.. everywhere i read, it says they are peaceful community fish..

anyways..thanks for the help and hopefully we prevent others from making this mistake..

[Blinky]

I was astounded when I learned that the 'peaceful' tetras I'd purchased were little demons (pretty little demons, but demons nonetheless) - I only half believed the LFS owner who told me it was most certainly them doing all the damage, and when I came home to read up on it, I found the same thing as you. Nothing online or in any book I read said anything - I think one or two sites mentioned that they may occasionally nip long fins.
Any time I talk to someone with a community tank who wants serpaes, I let them know what I've learned. Hopefully then they won't go through what we've all been through.

[calimako]

Man, thank you for the insight on those serpaes.. i would have no idea that they would do that..

I took back the disgruntled fin-nippin serpaes back to the LFS.. the owner was shocked to hear they were nipping at the guppies... and i even told him that on the web, ppl were saying its best to keep them schooled in groups of 5+ and at times they can terrorize other community fish.. he was still amazed that they showed any aggressive behavior.. i felt like he didn't believe anything I was saying. hahah well it didnt bother me..

anyways.. i bought 2 new guppies.. a tequila sunrise male and a plain female.. can this teq sunrise guppy breed with any female guppy? just curious, because their tail shape, color and structure looked different from the fancy male guppies'.. they are very cool looking..



quick last question.. do you think it is safe to add a male beta to this tank? i have one at my apt, and am going away for a while.. wanted to see if he would work out at my parents community tank.. let me know what you think

thanks
cali