Rams

[csmaster]

Whats the difference between the Bolivian Ram and the German Ram ?

[Mr.Jingles]

think of them as a different fish. just a relative of the blue ram. Bolivians are a bit larger with larger eyes and less blue. there body is shaped more like a geophagus than that of a blue ram. they have red fins with black on the top and bottom of the caudal fin and yellow bellies. they are sometimes called ruby clown cichlids, at least that is what my LFS calls them.

they are suppose to be easier to breed and hardier. my lfs sells them for 15 a pop, so I havent tried keeping them yet.

go for it, if you can.

[csmaster]

is either of the 2 any good for a comunity tank?

[Mr.Jingles]

yeah, both are.

I like blue rams in a community cause they stay real small. around 1 1/2 - 2 inches.

bolivians, I think can reach 3 inches.

try either one, or both, depending on your tank size.

[csmaster]

Which is the blue ram? i carnt find it...

[Mr.Jingles]

Blue Rams are the smaller of the two, with irridescent blue scales, yellow chests and dark spots in the middle of their bodies

in a search engine, put "Blue Rams" with quotes. or try their scientific name: Microgeophagus ramirezi, aka, Papiliochromis ramirezi

Microgrophagus altispinosa is the bolivian ram.

[csmaster]

oh so the german ram IS the blue ram, well that is also supposed to get 3" so which would be more peacefull, the german or bolivian?

thanks

[Mr.Jingles]

oh...3 iches...

I was reading this other thread just now that is on the krib. it talks about how captive bred blue rams are smaller than their wild ancestors. I really havent seen a 3 inch blue ram.

um, since i have never had the chance to keep bolivians, I cant say which is more peaceful. however, my blue rams do little in the way of showing aggression. I would try the bolivians, only cause I dont have them, but if you have a tank of 40-50 gallons, you could try a pair or two of both.

however, if you just want pure peace and looks, go with the blue rams.

[Deb2]

I have kept both and they are equally as peaceful. I suppose blue rams can reach 3 inches but I have not seen it the largest is 2 inches. However I have had Bolivian rams at 4 inches or at least very close to it.
Blue rams are not quite the same as German blue rams. They are the same species different strains. German blues are more refined looking. The blue rams are closer to wilds. I'll post a link in a bit.
Bolivian rams are much more hardy. Blues are very sensitive to water quality and esp. chemicals such as medications.
This is a good example of blue rams.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~aquotix/Breeding-Rams.html
And German blues,color lines are more defined:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~aquotix/Breeding-Rams.html
The difference is hard to notice. Both are beautiful fish and one of my favorites. If you give them hiding places they won't hide much.

[Dwarfnut]

Guess I'll throw in my 2 cents since I have both species right now...

The Blue Rams I have are wild caught and the largest ones yet are slightly over 1 1/2". My largest male Bolivian (I have 3 pairs...) I close to four inches long! The Bolivian rams are very peaceful, never showing any aggression towards anything unless they are trying to spawn. The Blue rams on the other hand, are very much territorial and will show aggression towards anything that comes near... even my Plecos! With both in the same 30 gallon tank, the Blue rams definitely bully the much larger Bolivians and you can tell the Bolivians are stressed out because of their color. Since my Bolivians should about be ready to spawn again, I'm getting ready to separate them and give each their own tank.

IMO and IME, if you want to breed them, then the Bolivians are much easier to breed, but I'd suggest you not put the two in the same tank for breeding. I think the Blue would stress the Bolivians out too much and my experience shows that if the Bolivians get stressed, then they eat their eggs.

Good luck... too bad you are not closer, in another month my remaining Bolivian fry from the last spawn should about be ready to go to new homes!

Bill C.

[1 fish 2 fish]

I thought the Blue Ram was Apistogramma ramirezi. I did hear ablout some changes having to do with the rams, was it changed?

[Z Man]

I have a book from 1979 where they are listed as Apistogramma but they have actually had their Genus changed twice since then. I believe Microgeophagus has been used for about 15 years now.

[Deb2]

Wild caught rams can be a little aggressive but captive caught are as docile as the Bolivian rams. Most wild caught fish are more aggressive than the tank raised.