Tiger Oscar HITH problem

[Kakarot305]

Hello all,
I am new to keeping oscars, but not aquariums. I have had a fish tank of some sort going since I was a little kid. My setup these days is a 55 gallon with alot of filtration (one of the filters being a marineland biowheel), 2 tiger oscars and a pleco. The tigers are about 5 inches and 4 inches (Mickey and Mallory respectively). I rescued these 2 little ones from wal mart when they were fairly young (about 2 inches) 2 months ago. My water paramaters are great, they are growing well, eating well and appear very healthy. My only problem is that Mickey (the larger one) is starting to develop HITH. He had a spot on his back then went away when I started adding vitamin D to their diet. But the next week it started to develop very quickly behind his left eye. I feed them wardleys cichlid pellets enriched with vitamin C, Tetra Cichlid floating sticks, they snag sinking shrimp pellets I throw in for the pleco sometimes and an occassional batch of cheap fish (not "feeders" but cheap tropical fish). I always quarantine any fish before adding it to my setup and disease has not been an issue.
I guess what the bottom line that I am getting at is that I do my water changes w/ a gravel vacuum, keep the water nice and warm (about 79F), plenty of filtration/airation and I watch my water attributes, etc... Why would one oscar devolp HITH while the other is perfectly fine? Is a 55G big enough for 2 oscars and a pleco? I realize in about 6 months as they are getting close to full grown I may need to upgrade to a larger tank, but they seem pretty happy for the moment. Any insight is much appreciated. I don't know what else to do for this poor little guy.

Thanks all for your time,
Ray

[daveedka]

IMHO a 55 is not big enough for two O's and a pleco, you will really be better off with a 90g+ for that combo.

That aside, HITH is controllable but onc you have it it usually doesn't ever go away completely. Why one fish would get it and another wouldn't is really unknown. But in truth the cause of HITH has yet to be proven so it isn't suprising. Here is one of the better articles I have found on HITH, there is a lot of info out there, but most of it guesswork.
http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/hith.shtml
dave

[victimizati0n]

HITH is caused by bad water quality.

Probably because 2 oscars are too small for a 55 gallon tank.

Fish can recover from it, but it takes a few weeks.


(This info came from my saltwater fish book, but i have heard it is the same with freshwater fish)

[daveedka]

Victimization, While I agree that hith usually shows up on fish kept in poor conditions, Whether or not that is actually the cause is still very debateable. Furthermore, the theory that bad nutrition is the cause hasn't been proven either. It is pretty much accepted that good quality water, and good nutrition in combination will ward off/ prevent HITH, the cause is really unknown. The major reason that the cause is hard to find pertains to the fact that typically fish which are kept in poor environments are also fed poorly, and often are subjected to parasites. But even then there are plenty of fish that go through life in less than desireable conditions, and never develope HITH. in addition there is the occasional fish that developes it despite excellent conditions and good nutrition.

I fully agree that the tank should be kept Pristine, and that good nutrition should be fed. the article I linked covers those two points very well, It also covers how to deal with fish that already have HITH in order to keep it controlled and keep the fish as healthy as possible.
Dave

[NickH]

We know this: HITH is caused by either poor water quality, poor nutrition, or both. You should be able to narrow this down.

Your water quality may be great nitrogen-cycle wise, but I ask you this: what is the PH/hardness of the water? If it's hard water with a of PH 7.5 or higher, this could be the culprit.

[daveedka]

PH has never had a bearing on HITH in my experience. I have kept many oscars and Other American cichlids in Hard water. As said water quality (pollutants) and nutrition are the two most popular theories. Of these two the nutrition theory seems to be more accurate IME, but as said they typically go hand in hand so closely that it is difficult to seperate them. When I have adopted fish with Hith, vitamins have worked wonders, but at the same time I kept those fish in clean tanks (with high Ph I might add). I have never adopted a fish with HITH and not fed it a good diet so I don't know if water quality alone would put it in remission.
Dave

[NickH]

PH has never had a bearing on HITH in my experience. I have kept many oscars and Other American cichlids in Hard water.

What are the measurements of your water?

There are South American tropical fish which do NOT do well in hard water. Green Terrors come to mind, as do Pacus and Silver Dollar species. I could never keep an Oscar in any of my setups, they would always get a disease, and my water quality was always as close to perfect as possible. South American cichilds in general don't do as well in PH higher than 7.5 or so. Central American cichlids are another story.

[NikkO]

Try using mardel's coppersafe. My oscar had a bad case of HITH a few months ago and it healed within a week or two after i added coppersafe.

[daveedka]

What are the measurements of your water?

Back in the old days when I had a lot of oscars, I was on well water that usually tested around 8.2 , MY current tap water is 7.8-8.0 once it equalizes, and that is extremely soft water. My current Oscar tank is planted and has co2 injection, so the ph currently stays a bit lower. But I wouldn't be afraid of high ph (within reason of course) in my oscar tanks.

I honestly have never had a disease with any of my Oscars, I have had ich in tanks that they were in but it was always confined to the cats, and never broke out on the Oscars. I have adopted several fish that had hith over the years, and although I don't like adopting other peoples problems, I dealt with it the best I could, and with vitamins and frequent water changes those fish healed up pretty well.
dave

[Lazersniper]

I have very high ph and all my fish, including oscars, are fine. I have very hard water as well. The only time I've ever had to deal with HITH is when my brother was keeping a betta and didn't take care of it too well. (7th grader, kinda 'forgets' to do change the water) I used some kind of fungus med, I forgot which kind, and it stopped the HITH but didn't heal it properly. I don't think it would have healed up anyway seeing as the betta was over 5 years old, probably 6.5 years.

[Tiger15]

How pH would affect HITH desease is unclear. Fish vulnerable to HITH are almost exclusively soft water fish that include Oscar, Discus, Angels, Geophagus from SA, and Gourami from SE Asia. Hard water fish like Rift Lake cichlids and central American cichlids rarely get them. Marine angels area also vulnerable to HITH, but not other coral fish. So there has to be fish species specific vulnerability. Fish kept in planted tanks also rarely reported to suffer from HITH. It's uncommon hear Oscar kept in a planted tank but not getting HITH may have to do with the plants.

[daveedka]

Actually the current O tank is the first planted tank I've had. And it is largely an experiment to see if I can have a plnated Oscar tank or if the plants will have to go later. When we talk about hard water there are many factors. Since pollution is one of the theoretical causes of HITH, it may have something to do with specific types of pollution which may vary in different sources of hard water.
As far as certain species only getting HITH, It does seem limited to only certain fish, but why is beyond my scope of understanding at this point. I imagine when we find an accurate cause and cure, we will then find out why only certain fish get it.
dave

[Tiger15]

To say that pollution will cause HITH contributes little to solve the HITH mystery. Pollution is the underlying cause of many deseases. Although Rift Lake cichlids don't develop HITH, they are susceptable to bloat with bad water quality. Perhaps pollution can prevent HITH because it will cause the demise of many fish before they have the chance to develop HITH. To be skeptical, I've heard people who kept Oscar in apprently clean wate with frequent water changes still troubled by HITH and they theroized it to genetic factors.

[daveedka]

Toger 15,
I would tend to agree with you to an extent. It has always struck me as ODD that I have never had a case of HITH develope on any of my fish. I have however adopted several that had it, and in some cases they lived in the same tap water region I did. For most of my Oscar keeping days, I did not supplement vitamins, although I have always fed a variety of food, and used a good quality prepared food for a staple. I do use feeders, but not as a staple diet.
I really agree with the genetic pre-disposition idea, but proving that one would be a very difficult and long term experiment. I tend to lean more towards the nutrition side of the argument with genetics having a strong influence. Similar to Diabetes in Humans.
Either way the one thing we seem to all agree upon is that clean water, and good nutrition will help the situation both before and after HIth shows up.

I make the claim that I have never had a case of HITH develope in my fish, and at the same time, I gaurd against it and watch for it constantly. It is something I worry about regularlyAnd expect someday I won't be able to make that claim any more.

My thought with the pollution idea was maybe one specific factor such as a heavy metal etc. might contribute to the onset.

[NickH]

If genetics is indeed a factor, it could have something to do with inbreeding and the lack of a diverse gene pool from wich these "pet store" Oscars come from. I wonder if wild-caught Oscars would be more or less suseptible to HITH in the confines of an aquarium?

[daveedka]

I have wondered the same thing, I have a wild caught Oscar currently, and he is the first one I've ever owned. He doesn't have the personality of a tank bred fish, but he is healthy and hardy so far. He is extremely skittish which is something I don't like but hopefully he'll grow out of it. Being a wild caught fish, I am interested to see how he developes compared to the tank bred animals I've owned in the past.
Dave