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99SH
01-11-2003, 11:50 PM
My girlfriend has a 29 gallon tank with a goldfish, a big one. I think it's a comet, around 5 or 6 inches. It also has 3 cichlids, but I'm getting rid of them tomorrow. She want's to keep the goldfish, but I don't know of any other fish I can put in there. Any ideas? I've heard that a big goldfish should have 30 gallons to himself, so is there anything else I can put in there? The water temp is around 70, ph around 7.6. Thanks.

val
01-12-2003, 2:05 PM
A single fish in a 29g tank is kind of boring to look at, but I have a pair of 20g tanks each with 3 GF. I have good filtration, I do not overfeed, I use a bubble wand (which increases surface agitation) and mine have done quite well. I've heard the 30g rule for GF, and I find that a little extreme. 10 years ago in the pages of Aquarium Fish Magazine, Steven Meyer, who does their ponds and GF columns, was recommending 15 - 20 gallons per GF, and since then, the number has been rising steadily. I wouldn't be surprised if that number reached 40g soon. And this as filtration has gotten better and cheaper over the past decade. I'd think you could add a pair of any other fantail variety that has a dorsal (top) fin: moor, oranda, redcap. This would make an interesting counterpoint to what you have now.

If you have any specific questions about food/filtration, drop me a line...


Val

Darkangel
01-12-2003, 5:05 PM
Sorry Val I have to really disagree with you on this one. While GF will live in smaller containers I do not believe they grow as well or live nearly as long under those conditions. No matter how good filtration is it is still limited and not able to remove some stuff from the water. For instance filters will not remove hormones or phereomones unless you are constantly changing carbon. These chemicals will affect both fish growth and behavior. You also must take into account the body mass of a good size goldfish. My three Ryukins are each over 4 inches long not including the tail. I bet that each one of these GF is equal in weight and bio out put to 100 neon tetras. would you put 200 neons in a 29 gallon tank? This is what you are suggesting bio wise with your recomendation. My three live in a 65 in the winter and a 300 gallon pond in the summer. I suspect they will get anywhere from 75 to 100% bigger in the next few years. Those numbers of gallons are for the best growth and development of the GF. These fish should live for at least 20 years, likely a lot longer. A 29 gallon tank is okay for two smaller GF for a while but not once they mature. This is all my opinion and yours obviously differs but I thought it would be good for 99SH to hear more ideas and opinions.

TJcanada
01-12-2003, 6:40 PM
Sorry Val but I tend to agree with Darkangel... Doesn't matter what Steve M has recommended in the past... fact is goldfish are carp - carp grow big and are messy fish - this should be a big consdieration when purchasing them. There are lots of stories around about people keeping goldies in small tanks and those fish living for years...but have you seen those fish - they are stunted - possibly healthy other wize - but as Dark mentions they don't live to their full potential. Fancies or common - more water and ample filtration is best for them in the long run - you'd be surprised how lovely they can be if given the proper conditions for growth.

Just my thoughts, TJ

GTK
01-12-2003, 8:16 PM
I have two shubunkins in a 75 gallon tank, and with them I have 10 small white cloud mountain minnows, which are also "cold water" fish.

Darkangel
01-12-2003, 8:34 PM
There are lots of cool water fish you could put in this tank. White clouds, bitterlings, sticklebacks, rosey reds, paradise fish, and weather loaches to name a few. The above points though were to say in this particular tank none would be advisible. There is already a 6 inch fish in this tank which has the potential to reach upwards of 16 inches or so. That is way to much fish in a tank that is only 12 inches wide.

TJcanada
01-12-2003, 9:12 PM
Ditto Dark....:D

Frank_Carr
01-13-2003, 9:43 AM
I have 3 4-6" goldfish in a 29 gallon tank but to keep the tank in good shape is a lot of work. Filtration is provided by an Emporer 400 power filter and a UGF with a Penguin 660R powerhead (reverse flow). I also do 10-20% water changes every 5-7 days. Even with this, I expect to buy a 55 gal (or better) tank for these guys by the end of the year.

So, my suggestion would be first not to add any other fish unless you're planning to get a bigger tank. You might get away with 1 more goldfish in the tank if you can filter it heavily and perform regular maintanance. I know it can be hard not to get more, particularly if your significant other wants them, but at least put up a little resistance.

I'd avoid any other fish species in the tank. Tropicals and goldfish don't go together and most other cold water tolerant species aren't a good match either. I'd say particularly avoid plecos since they'll tend to develop the habit of sucking the slime coating off of larger goldfish, thus injuring the fish. LFS's often recommend mixing the two but it's a recipe for a hurt or dead goldfish eventually.

fish dude
01-13-2003, 9:43 PM
http://www.*****************/catalog_pages/wild/dragon_fish.htm#top2

checkthis out its says its fine with large gols...good luck.
awasome fish

pinballqueen
01-13-2003, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by fish dude
http://www.*****************/catalog_pages/wild/dragon_fish.htm#top2

checkthis out its says its fine with large gols...good luck.
awasome fish

NOT a good idea. They're brackish fish. Besides, goldies are greedy. A dragonfish would starve to death in a tank with a 6" comet.

I know, I've tried to keep dragonfish before, and they're a lot pickier about their environment than this link makes them out to be....

Randy
01-13-2003, 11:37 PM
I have 2 fantails in a 35g tank. One is about 1/2 inch and the other approx 3 inches. The only other fish i have in my tank is a weather loach. The weather Loach gets along fine with the goldfish even at feeding. Im not planning on getting any other fish but i really dont think i should panick and run out and buy a 60g tank cause the word out there is 30 gallons per fish. Truth is who really knows just how much space a goldfish needs. Every site i have been on will tell you something different. Is a matter of fact i just read today that 30g per gold fish really is for maintence purposes. Another site will tell you a goldfish must have 30g in order to survive for 15-20 years. iv'e seen it recomended 10g per goldfish or 1inch of fish per 30square inches of surface area or whatever. I think if u just dont overstock to the point where your filter or biolgical filter can not handle the load, keep in mind your particular type of gold fish size may become, keep up with the cleaning, water changes ect things should be ok :D:D :D

I have no idea where pinballqueen got that other post that says it was written and posted by me:o

pinballqueen
01-14-2003, 1:49 AM
Originally posted by Randy
I have 2 fantails in a 35g tank. One is about 1/2 inch and the other approx 3 inches. The only other fish i have in my tank is a weather loach. The weather Loach gets along fine with the goldfish even at feeding. Im not planning on getting any other fish but i really dont think i should panick and run out and buy a 60g tank cause the word out there is 30 gallons per fish. Truth is who really knows just how much space a goldfish needs. Every site i have been on will tell you something different. Is a matter of fact i just read today that 30g per gold fish really is for maintence purposes. Another site will tell you a goldfish must have 30g in order to survive for 15-20 years. iv'e seen it recomended 10g per goldfish or 1inch of fish per 30square inches of surface area or whatever. I think if u just dont overstock to the point where your filter or biolgical filter can not handle the load, keep up with the maintence water changes ect, it will be fine. Like I said who really knows just how much a goldfish needs space wise, and if u claim too know that answere how do you know? Did a goldfish tell you himself??????????????????

Little bit inflammatory there, neighbor. We didn't say they HAVE TO have 30 gallons in order to SURVIVE, now did we? I just said in order to be healthy and for ease of maintainence, 20-30 gallons per FULL-GROWN fish is the way to go. Keep in mind a full grown comet goldfish is over a foot long, so 30 gallons is not too much to ask in that case....at that point it's for space considerations-a foot long fish needs a little room to turn corners....

I DO KNOW how much space a goldfish needs. As much as any other fish of comparable size. And I didn't need to ask my fish to figure it out....

Randy
01-14-2003, 2:42 AM
I said i have read that u need 30g tank for one gold fish to reach its full potential like live for 15 years or whatever. I did not say i read that here now did I? I have read u need 10g per fish, i have also read u need 10-20g per fish. My point to all of this is everywhere u look someone is saying something different. I spent an hour in the library last sunday while my wife was shopping and looked at 3 different books, each book giving me a different figure for the so called comfort zone. Sure if you are going to have a goldfish that reaches a FOOT LONG a smaller tank will not be wise. I have yet too see a FOOT LONG fantail. :rolleyes::p

Randy
01-14-2003, 5:00 AM
Just an example of some of the formulas i have come across

LxD%30
L=36 inches
D=12 inches

432%30=14.4
this formula tells me i can only have 14.4 inches of fish in a tank with those measurments.

I have seen several of these formulas only problem is each one gave a different # to divide by. One said divide by 20 while another tells you to divide by 25 or one said divide by 40. This is what frustrates me the most about this whole how many in the tank thing:mad:

pinballqueen
01-14-2003, 10:55 PM
Normally, I try to stay away from "formula" fishkeeping. I used to keep to the "inch per gallon" rule, but I found out really quick that it doesn't really apply to really messy, really wide, or really large fish, so it's not an absolute in ANY instance to use a "cookie-cutter" method. Different fish require different things, even among the same species groups, such as tetras, cichlids, and even goldfish.

Every goldfish doesn't require 30 gallons, and some are happier in much more. 30 is a good "average" number for a fully grown goldfish, but of course, you have to use proper judgement. Fantails don't get quite as big as koi, so it's obvious that they don't require quite as much physical space. Also, obviously these fish don't absolutely have to have that much space while still juvenile...

I just try to give guidelines that will help understand exactly how LARGE some of these guys actually get, and it doesn't really hit home for some until you tell them the cute little goldfish with whiskers they have in a 10 gallon tank is the same one as that monster at the Japanese steakhouse that's the size of your arm....

Randy
02-05-2003, 4:05 AM
WHITE CLOUD MOUNTAIN MINNOWS

need at least 6 of them. Small 1.5 inches. Very colourful.


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