What would you expect your LFS to do?

[chrisblack2k2]

I recently purchased a handful of gold swords for my 29 gallon tank from my LFS. This is the same store that i have gone to for all of my aquarium needs since I set up my tank over a month ago. Well, after having the swords for a few days, I realized there was something wrong with them. Since buying them, they have been VERY timid, and not active at all. Upon closer inspection, I found white spots on 3 out of the 5. I went to the LFS to check out the fish that were in the tank they came from (Still the same ones) and found they had the same problem. I brought this to the attention of the clerk, and he recommended some meds. Is it reasonable to ask the store to take them back? I havent even been set up that long, and I dont want to start out this early fighting disease... Any opinions or advice on how to approach the manager about it would be appreciated!

Chris

[mayreee]

This could happen at any LFS. I would medicate the fish. About 70% of the fish I have bought were ill. There is no way to prevent it. It just sounds like ich which is common and easy to cure.

[chrisblack2k2]

70%? Wow, thats crazy. I was under the impression that I should expect fish I purchase to be healthy. Who knew? :confused:

[mayreee]

Well I am sure that isn't everyones experience but I think most people have brought a sick fish home before.

[Archangel]

Well, I've only bought fish from 3 different Petsmarts and 2 local fish stores, but I've never once bought a sick fish. I only buy from the two respectable LFS. First, you should always be sure to check fish out before you buy. Make sure there are NO dead fish in the tank, same species or not. Avoid swollen bellies, swollen eyes, lack of balance, white spots, red spots, sunken bellies. And pick your fish out, don't let them just fish in a grab out any one they please.

If they won't take them back, I probably wouldn't continue to use that store. After all, the fish had ick before you brought them home. Also, it's really the stores fault if any of your other fish die, but that's why you should quarantine your new fish(listen to me preach, I've never quarantined a fish in my life! :eek: ) But you can't make them take them back.

Best thing to do is slowly raise your temp to about 84 degrees, and add some aquarium salt, to about 1 teaspoon per gallon. Ick really is an easy problem to fix, if a bit annoying.

[TKOS]

The ich treatment should be at 86F. And run the treatment (with proper water changes) for three weeks. That will make sure you won't get any more ich from the current fish and tank you have.

[chrisblack2k2]

Will salt affect live plants? And will the treatments affect my nitrifying bacteria?

[Blinky]

I recently treated for ich in my tank and the plants are completely fine. I used 1tsp/g pickling salt and turned the temperature up to 86F; all the plants and all the fish came through just fine.
And no, it won't hurt the biological filter - that's one of the things I like about this treatment; it's not hard on anything but the parasites.

[Swimfins]

Hmm, my fish store quarantines any fish they suspect of ich or velvet and do not sell, until absolutely healthy. I know they would be taken back and I'd be given a store credit. No doubt about it.

There should be a reasonable guarantee for the fish's life expectancy once purchased, a week or so anyhow.

I agree with archangel, you should eyeball the tank, and inspect each fish once in the bag and again at home. My LFS checks each one before the sale using a magnifying glass.

The good thing is you can treat this pretty easily as per the advice given. Sounds good.

[amosf]

You do get a lot of sick fish, so it pays to be wary. Unfortunately in our town at the moment there appears to be only three places to buy fish. A large all pet store, a small all pet store and a specialist tropical fish store. We've had the most trouble with the largest pet store, NTD and various things. Their prices are also the highest, tho we tend to go there on occasion as they have the best range if you 'really need something'. The other pet store is okay, tho we did get black neons with ich there. They are out of the way so don't use them much anyway, tho their prices are better than the rest on some things. The fish only store is more out of the way than the main pet store and doesn't have the range, but mostly has the lowest prices and the best quality fish (tho not the range). We only buy live fish there now as they do know a little more (tho they will still stretch things to sell a few more fish).

[Megatron]

Bringing them back is also perfectly reasonable! At petsmart you have 14 days to bring your fish back....dead, alive, sick, you dont like them etc etc....
Its a no questions asked policy. For example I had a customer bring back a yellow lab on monday because it didnt fit in with her other fish. Your LFS should do the same especially if there fish are sick also.

[sky.eyes.woman]

As a LFS employee, I find this thread really interesting. My manager gave me a book to read (printed by the company, there was a test on it as well) that listed the top 13 'myth-conceptions' people have about fish keeping. I told her we should print these up for people to take home and read. I for one am tired of trying to make the stubborn clueless ones listen to me when I tell them keeping an oscar in a 10-gallon tank will just result in a stunted sickly fish that will die much sooner than it should and, no, you can't keep a goldfish in a little bowl. I love it when they say, "Oh, my goldfish lived for 2 years in a bowl! It's fine!" because that's when I get to say, "Well, with proper care and plenty of room, it's not uncommon for a goldfish to live 10 or even 20 years." They always look surprised and stop trying to BS me about the bowl thing. It's not that I have any problem with the clueless ones, they have to learn how to take care of fish somewhere, but I'm so sick of hearing tales about how they are really mistreating their fish and they look at me with suspicion when I try to tell them how to do it right. They think I'm trying to sell them a bigger tank than they need and other things they won't need, like water conditioner. :mad:
If you guys here have any common misconceptions people have about keeping fish, post them and I will put them in our store's handout sheets, I've been told I can type one up and if the manager likes it, we can give it out.

[sky.eyes.woman]

Oh, and about the sick fish from the pet store, you really should ask if they will take them back. I know in my store we have a 14-day guarantee on all our fish except for feeders and if this had happened there, we would allow you to return the fish, plus put our own sick ones in the hospital tank. That store should make good on the sick fish they sold you, it's only right since you could have infected your tank at home with them. Sorry you got a bum deal there.

[Megatron]

Yep its so true.... every single day i have to go on about how goldfish should not be kept in bowls no matter what over and over and over.... yet we carry bowls labeled "goldfish starter kit" and a ton of utterly useless $*** customers buy the stuff from us one day give it to their kids ... the next day they come in to buy their goldfish. Then i have to inform them they have just wasted 40$ on somthing that is simply cruel to put there fish in. THEN people get mad at me even though its totally not my fault and if it was up to my such products would be off the market! Being a LFS guy is not all fun and games let me tell you all. I had one couple come in with not 1 not 2 not even 3 but 4 goldfish in a 2 gallon bowl one died so they were in to replace it. I explained that they should have at the very minimum a 40 gallon tank for that many fish. They ignored me and took another fish. The next day they came back dead fish in hand looking for not 1 more fish BUT 2!!! I wanted to kick them in the teeth and tell them never come back to the store.... but all i could do was be polite and bag them there fish.... at least they didnt have the guts to bring them back later. Another customer came in picked a 2 liter bowl off the shelves and then with it under his arm asked me for 4 comets i told him the would die in a matter f hour in there and showed him a betta telling him it would be a much better choice he thanked me looked at them for a bit only to come back and ask for 4 comets again! :thud: I said well they will be dead in hours but at least get some water conditioner..... he said that it was ok and if this worked out he would buy some! Not even me telling him that they would get blisters on their gills would convince him 3$ was worth it! :mad2
The next day he came in and bought 8 comets and a 10 gallon tank ( no hood, no filter, not even an airstone) and he continues to come in every few days to buy another 6 or so comets so he can watch them for a few hours before they die! :mad2
Ok i need to breath now im getting really *issed off here.
sorry for highjacking the thread but i sorta needed to let go and i figure you people will feel my pain lol. Next time you dont see your LFS guy give as much detail about a fish you or somone else is buying it; cut the guy some slack 75% of people dont give 2 $***s about it and will just tell you to give it to them anyways. So it really gets old explaining basic care and then getting ignored, or even yelled at for it. This one guy came in and asked me for 4 silver sharks for a 10 g i told him "You really shouldnt do that" before I could explain why he yelled at me and ran out of the store. Half an hour later i was in the managers office explaining myself because this jerk had called and complained about ME! ok ok I have to stop before people start getting mad at me for ranting and raving here ( trust my you dont want to be my family they deal with this daily :thud: )..... I could start my own board with storys lol

[Megatron]

BTW the way Skyeyes petsmart right? your profile says pet care.... im also in the pet care most of the time... somtimes core, cash or nightcrew though.

[daveedka]

IMO, the return policy is something that the store should estabilish when they sell the fish. most do, the ones that don't allow returns I don't do buisiness with. It is virtually impossible for an LFS to prevent disease. There are simply too many fish that come through too quickly. The fact that this store isn't willing to work with you would concern me, not the fact thet you brought home ich. If they are still selling fish that they know have ich I would be very concerned. In my mind the difference between the good stores and the avoidable ones are how they handle the situation when a problem does arise. If they treat the fish, and refuse to sell them until well, then they are doing the best they can. If they continue to sell them, refuse to take sick fish back etc. then they would be avoided by me.

As said though, ich is one of the easier ones. Salt at 1-3 teaspoons per gallon, temp as high as you can up to 86* (86*F is ideal, anything elevated will help) A few extra vaccuming during the treatment will help especially right after the spots fall off of your fish. Keep the treatment up for a couple of weeks at least and you should be fine.
Dave
Dave

[happychem]

Have we even established that this is Ich? (It is Ich by the way, and not Ick, short for Ichthyophthirius multifiliis).

The description was just white spots, which doesn't specify Ich. Are they spots or do they look like grains of undissolved salt?

I agree with Dave about the returns policy, they should have one and it should be well established at sale. Most of our local stores only give you around 24-48 hours, at least for dead fish. Although I can usually work out an exchange over a longer time scale with the aquarium-only store.

I have some understanding for lfs' need to protect themselves from bozos. From some of the stories I've read, I wish that I'd had lfs employees like you guys when I first started, or known about AC. But like anyone else, they do have responsibility for the fish they provide.

No, I don't think that they should have to take them back, there are too many fish in too many tanks for an lfs to be aware of disease as soon as it appears. A very good lfs (or lfs employee) would inspect the fish in the bag before selling to you, but this is the difference between the 4 star store and a 3-star store. They should stop selling the fish in that tank, absolutely, and they should give you a discount on the meds. Even a token taxes off or something would basically say what I've just posted: they cannot be certain that all their fish are disease free (no store really can), but they do take responsibility for their fish and thank-you for pointing it out.

[chrisblack2k2]

Well, I went in and talked to the manager today. He said he COULD take them back, but its possible that the rest of my tank could have already contracted the disease. Instead, he gave me the 10 dollars worth of meds for free. Im going to treat the tank and hopefully everyone comes out okay. Im keeping a very close eye on water quality, and preforming 20% water changes daily, as the meds suggest. Thanks for everyone's help!

Chris

[happychem]

Well done and good luck.

[sky.eyes.woman]

Wow, Chris, that's awesome that the manager gave you some treatments for your fish free! Sounds like the guy does really care. Hopefully after you talked to him he treated his fish in the store as well. I think if I were in your shoes I'd give the store another chance and go back in the future. I'm glad he did the right thing.
Megatron, you're right, I do work at PETsMART. (That was pretty sharp of you to figure that out!) Our store deals with Ich and sometimes fungus popping up in our system from time to time, but we treat the whole system with medication every time we get new fish in. That's why our water is blue for a few hours every Friday! :D I'm sorry for going off on a tangent in this thread about clueless customers, for some reason I was thinking "What do you expect of your LFS?" and not the thread title.

[amosf]

The tangent is okay for me. Although we have our problems with the lfs occassionally, it's good to remember that in general most fish are going to die due to the lack of knowlege and experience of the people who buy them. The lfs people can try and help, but as stated it's often missinterpretted as 'trying to make more money' when often they really are trying to help. My statement about out lfs stretching the truth was more about their willingness to sell you a few more fish then your tank could really handle, but even that may not be a fair statement as they probably do have the ability to stock their tanks more heavily than the average home user and so maybe they are just thinking what fish they could put in a tank without considering that a home aquarium might not as much attention as it needs - or at least not as much as they would give a tank.

Anyway, as we know, a very large number of fish sold are doomed as they will be dumped in a new tank and be dead from ammonia poisoning in a couple of weeks or so. The lfs people have to deal with that all the time and they can only do so much. Our speciality lfs is just the best mostly because the fish are their exclusive business and lifetime hobby, which makes them a little more exerienced that people new to fish who are working at other general pet stores.