First high light (?) tank -- am I asking for trouble?

[Ger]

I have decided that I am up to the challenge of a planted tank to rival those at the AGA. The thing is that I haven't tried to grow anything other than Green Hygro, Java Fern, and Java moss.

I am setting up a 15 US gallon (24" x 12" x 12") with the belief that I can succesfully grow some lush high light plants.
Specs:
Eheim Classic canister filter 2213
Hagen CO2 Natural Plant System
55 watt power compact fluorescent from www.ahsupply.com
1 bag Seachem Fluorite (7Kg)

Tap water: pH 7.2, dGH 80ppm

What I would like feedback on is, what pitfalls might I encounter along the way, especially with a tank this small and the equipment I plan on using (or don't have... e.g. powerhead)? My Internet research mostly reflects opinions and experiences for larger tanks.

So far I believe that I should put alot of fast growers in and substrate fertilzers (Flourish tabs). My concern is that some of the plants that I want to get may be labelled as 'difficult' or 'not for beginners'. I don't consider myself an aquaria beginner (20+ years with at least one tank running smoothly), but I don't understand what makes a plant 'difficult' to keep beyond lighting and water parameters. Or perhaps I do -- For example, how do I know which plants need what trace elements and when? How does one go about 'reading' a plant to see that it is in need of something based on what it does, not unlike fish?

I apologize for the prosing. I appreciate any reality checks or book suggestions you may provide.

Thanks,

-- Ger.

[plantbrain]

You might want another bag of flourite.
Keep close tabs on the CO2 level of your tank.
Get some
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
Trace mix of some sort(SeaChem Flourish, TMG etc).

Some algae eaters, like Amano shrimps, otto cats.

Measure your KH, use that to find the pH you'll need for good CO2 levels, 20-30ppm or so. Use only CO2 gas to manipulate pH. Do not use anything else. KH and GH should be about 3 or higher.

Look up the chemicals on line etc.
www.thekrib.com and various forum archives will often answer your questions.
Learn about CO2 first, then move on to nutrients.

Plants have good general conditions, I don't find that plants are really difficult etc or not, if you use CO2, good nutrient levels, regular maintenace.

You'll need to get your feet wet and see what good growth looks like.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[The Gipper]

The smaller the tank, the quicker water parameters can change. I've just set up a 120gal, and am currently in the process of determining what rate of CO2 I need to hold 6.4-6.6 pH. Any adjustment I make with my needle valve causes a relatively slow change in pH. But in a 15 gal, the change would be much quicker. Hence you need to monitor closely during the phase in which you are determining dosing rates for CO2, KNO3, etc.

I couldn't find any stump remover (KNO3) locally (winter isn't the season for this), and I needed K2SO4 anyway, so I bought both at www.litemanu.com. Agricultural grade, fairly pure stuff, cheap.

If you do the CO2, macro nutrients (K, P, N) and trace (Seachem Fluorish, TMG, etc). and with your light, there is no reason you can't grow just about any plant you desire. If you go the open-top route, you could even get any height plant and let them grow out the top. If not, you need to avoid the plants that grow taller than the height of your tank, like large Amazon Swords (bunch plants of course you just snip and replant).

Welcome to the world of plants and good luck.

P.S. Initally add vigorous bunch plants. Tougher plants may die back or even die at first, since your water will be a bit up and down until you determine dosings. Then later pull some out and add plants of your choice. I had read this, and I added some vigorous bunch plants (Hygrophila Poly., basic green Rotala, Wisteria, etc) but couldn't resist adding some others. My basic bunch plants are fine, but some of the Crypts have melted a bit, I'm losing a few leaves on some Red Melon Swords, while my basic bunch plants are doing fine.

[Ger]

I thank you both for your comments and chemical references.

Since I intend to use a yeast generator for CO2, what is the best way to add and remove the gas to from the system? Adding yeast generators? Adjusting yeast/sugar solution? Aerating the tank? I thought that I would be better served by experiencing CO2 via the DIY route before investing in bottled gas.

[The Gipper]

Many people with smaller tanks go the DIY CO2 route. For a large tank, the problem is you'd have to have so many multiple bottles going, the maintenance would be too time consuming.

DIY CO2 is a fine way to start. Only problem is that its erratic. When you start it up, hardly any gas at all, then it ramps up and is more or less steady for a while. Then as the sugar is used up, the yeast die off and supply ramps down.

You might do some searching (as it looks like you already have) and find an amount of yeast, sugar,etc that would suit a 15 gal.

[carpguy]

We had a thread not to long ago where someone asked for a list of online reading materials. The list was so good, Richer archived (http://64.191.28.50/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2529) it.

The preferred method of getting the CO2 into the water seems to be with a reactor (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm), although feeding into the filter and airstones also work. You might also want to try a few searches for the Jello recipe for DIY CO2 -- this apparently can be longer lasting and more stable than the sugar and water recipe.

Some plants are more particular in their needs than others. These are the ones that get labelled "difficult". If you have the lights and the ferts and the CO2 worked out they should be fine, but getting all your levels where you want them may take a little bit. I have read, for instance, that you're better off waiting to plant crypts in a mature tank rather than starting with them.
Other plants are unkillable weeds.

HTH and good luck with it.

[Richer]

For CO2 in such a small tank, don't bother with a device to react your CO2 with your water... it will only take up too much space. What I did in my 15 gallon tank was run the CO2 through an airstone (wooden ones gave me the finest bubbles I could get), and had a powerhead (with a mechanical filter attachment) direct flow over the airstone... gave me pretty good results of about 15-20ppm of CO2. I had no other filters running in the tank, as my fish load was very light, and the tank was literally stuffed with plants.

Check the archives (main forum page, near the bottom) for more info on nutrient dosing... I believe I archived a thread in which Tom gave out a recommended amount of dosing for all of the seperate nutrients.

HTH
-Richer

[Gumby7]

I think a 2213 is overkill on a 15g! Better get some plants that like strong current or work out how you are going to diffuse the return adequately. Try it with a bare tank first. Don't even consider adding a powerhead.

(I had a 2215 in a 90g and it kept the chiclids "exercised")

Gumby7

[Ger]

:eek: I misread the specs on that Eheim... Somehow I thought it said 66gph, not 66 gal. Oh well, I have a use for it on my 45High anyway.

BUT as for water circulation, an alternative may be a Whisper2 on its lowest setting, perhaps? I understand why I don't need a filter for plants, but I am planning on moving my handful (6) of Iriatherina werneri in once I have the plants I want in there and know what to expect wrt water conditions and ferts, etc. pointed out earlier here.

It is obvious to me that the rules for equipment selection are different from an average fish-only setup. So let me ask what you all would use for filter and heater in a heavily planted (stem plants) high light 15-gallon with a handful of small fish? I have a Whisper2 H.O.T. and a 100 watt EBO heater available, but that too strikes me as a little large.

Thank you all again for your valuable insight.

[carpguy]

I have a VisiTherm100 for my 30g, and the 72 watts of lights (also from AH :) ) keep the tank so warm that the thing is hardly ever on. YMMV, depending on whatever factors (room temp, canopy, etc.) but 100 watts is really more heater than you need.

I also went with a Hang On Back type filter. These really aren't a good choice for planted. The surface disruption they create helps drive off the CO2 and the downward current is a serious aquascaping challenge, especcially with stem plants. My AquaClear 150 pounded the daylights out of any plant near it until I stuffed an algae cleaning sponge into the waterfall to buffer it a bit. Sort of works, not really ideal. I'll more than likely replace it with a small canister in the near future. I'd avoid the HOB, especially with stem plants.