Help Progressive : Tank wipe out

[stoneage]

My tank has been going 3 months and over the last 4 weeks I have been losing fish at a steady rate of one every week. All params are ok Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5, PH 8.3, SG 1023, Amonia 0, temp 26. The symptoms are the as follows; one day the fish will be happy swimming along normally eating normally, then the next day it will hide away, its will lose its colour, it will display rapid breathing, it wont eat and a day later it will be dead. I have seen some small white spots on the fins of some victims and I have been treating this with Myxazin on my 2nd bottle now (cant use copper, got inverts in the tank). At one point I thought it may be velvet and treated the tank with Exodin
So far I have lost a clown fish, a flame angel, and two green chromis and now the dottyback has stopped appearing.
I think there is more than one problem here, I think the myxazin has sorted the white spot but there is something much more serious in the tank.
I am very close to giving in and letting the disease wipe out the tank.... if I could prove which LFS I got it from I would go round and give them hell !!!!!

[OrionGirl]

Size of tank? All fish/inverts in there?

The symptoms sound more like a stress reaction than anything else--but the speed of death suggests something serious going on. Any physical changes--bloating, pop eye, etc?

[stoneage]

The tank is 48inch bow front 240 litres, there are now three fish; a bananna wrasse 1.25 inch(including tail), a yellow tailed damsel 1 inch, a rusty angel 1.5 inch, 1 boxer shrimp, 1 fire shrimp and 6 red hermit crabs. All remaining fish have been in the tank for nearly 2 months. The remaining fish are all eating and swimming normally and show no sign of disease, the only odd thing is the water appears cloudy during the day and tends to clear in the evening.

[stoneage]

other useful information...........
Very occasionally the fish appear agitated and dart around and flash on the rocks only to return to normal shorty afterwards. The angel spends quite a bit of time with the fire shrimp being cleaned but the other fish never go for cleaning. The chromis which died showed white patches but the others did not, the first symptom is listless swimming then the fish will then hid away and if you catch a glimpse of it, all its colour has faded and it shows very rapid gill movement. death follows extremely quickly usually with in 24 hours.

[OrionGirl]

Could be stress from crowding--that's a lot of fish for a 60 gallon tank, even with juvenile fish. With several fish known for aggression (clown, damsels, dottybacks, angels), I'd suspect that there's some competition for space going on. What all is in the tank for hiding places?

Other concern--is the tank grounded? An elevated electric current can cause a wide variety of odd symptoms for the fish, and is worth ruling out.

[stoneage]

In terms of aggression, apart from the damsel occassionally making a rush at the
wrasse (who simply sprints out of the way), there hasn't been any or at least none that I have seen. Although some of the fish types in the tank have a reputation for aggression the species were chosen specifically for their unusually peaceful dispositions (Orchid Dottyback and Blue Yellow Tailed Damsel).

Regarding stock levels there have only ever been five small fish in the tank at any time. I must admit I have been stupid and added replacement fish after the first few casualties (I am speculating that it was during this process that the white spot was introduced).

In terms of grounding I am not sure how I would test this, please advise.

Any ideas on this cloudy tank in the day clearing in the evening, I am gong out to get a microscope to try and see whats in the water.

[OrionGirl]

Change of lighting, maybe? White cloudy or green cloudy?

Grounding--same meter as you use to check an electric wire, can't recall the name right now. Grounding probes are available, as well...but as I mentioned, this is mostly just to rule it out. Go through all the equipment in the tank, make sure it's all in good working order, too.

[stoneage]

White cloudy, its very odd, right now at 20.00pm the tank appears clear. You can see ornaments in the room several feet from the end of tank when viewing length wise. (its not crystal clear like my cichlid tank, you know the difference).
In the day you can barely see through it length wise, this has only started in the last few days.

[OrionGirl]

That sounds like a bacterial issue, other than the timing. Any changes based on lights on/off? Normally, a bacteria bloom is the result of a change in the system--something that disrupts the balance of waste and consumers, allowing a specific species to get out of control. Given time, the predator population rebounds and brings it under control--but identifying what caused the imbalance can be tough. The medicine used to treat white spot could be the cause--some medications come with unintended consequences.

For the fish--no other behavior in the healthy fish? No gasping, or hanging out by sources of current? Last water change?

[stoneage]

Dotty back just appeared at evening feeding, he has some white specks on the left pectral fin and some more near the head, I think its too small for white spot, hopefully this is being handled by the Myxazin. The fish ate some food but its no where near as active as usual, swimming slowly and hesitantly.

[stoneage]

Just got a good look at the dottyback, in the right light it looks like he has been sprinkled in a fine white powder, its almost too small to see. This definitely looks like Oodinium if it is why didnt the Exodin I used two weeks ago kill it off. I thought Oodinium was a golden colour, this is white.

[OrionGirl]

There are a variety of parasites--Oodinium usually does have a goldish sheen to it, and ich is typically looks a bit larger on the skin. But, without lab work, there's no way to get a definitive id. I'd try removing the fish to a quarantine setup and using a more aggressive treatment for at least 6 weeks. Any parasites remaining in the main tank should die without a host, and then the fish can be returned once healthy. Investing in a quarantine tank for any future purchases might pay off as well.

[stoneage]

Latest update, no sign of the dottyback, the angel has visible white spots on pectral fins and the tail, he is darting around and flashing all the time. To be quite honest I have had enough of this, I think I am going to let naure take its course and abandon the tank.

[stoneage]

Latest News
Finished the Myxazin course (whitespot), started an Exodin course (oodinium) I know this is risky but what the hell, I am getting desperate now. There is still no sign of the dottyback I supose I should go and try and find the body, but I have decided to give it another day. The angel fish has white spots all over his fins and tail but otherwise seems unaffected, all the remaining fish feeding and swimming normally. As usual the damsel and the wrasse show no sign of infection, I have read that fish can develop immunity to protozoan infections through multiple low level exposures. In these cases the cyst like reproductive stage does not occur because they either don't form or drop off the body of an imune fish, this would certainly tie in with what Iam seeing.

[stoneage]

Latest News 2.
Dottyback dead.
The angel is now covered in white spots these definitly look like Whitespot, he is swimming directly next to the outlet pipe from external filter.
I hope Myxazin actually works because it does seem to have done anything so far.
Continuing with Exodin treatment just in case there is Oodinium as well.
Wrasse and Damsel completely unaffected as usual.

[stoneage]

Latest if anyone is still interested.
All fish swimming and feeding ok, the angel seems more active, he still has spots all over his fins and some on the body but he is no longer spending all his time hanging in the path of the filter outlet.

[OrionGirl]

That should be a good thing. Possible the fish will shake the parasite themselves, or at least get it down to a tolerable level. The hanging out in front of the outlet is probably related to trying to get more oxygen--parasites preferentialy colonize the gill tissue and can make it hard for the fish to breath.

[stoneage]

Latest
The Angel is looking a lot better the number of white spots is visibly less, all the fish swimming and eating normally. Its a shame about the dottyback it was a magnificent fish.

[stoneage]

At last I am over the crisis the Flame Angel is much better and nearly all the white spots are gone, all fish swimming and eating normally.
I will wait a month before thinking about adding any more stock.
Anyone like to comment on the maximum stocking load for a 240 litre/ 56 gallon tank.
Current stock 1 pygmy Flame Angel, 1 Pygmy Rusty Angel, 1 Bananna Wrasse and 1 Blue Yellow Tailed Damsel.

[OrionGirl]

Glad everything is clearing up!

In terms of adding fish...Maybe a hawk? Or some inverts--I'm partial to shrimp.