Nitrite poisoning help

[elal]

Hi everyone
I've had my tank for about 5 weeks now. It was cycled with just two live plants for 3.5 weeks, and added 2 clown loaches and a pl*co just over a week ago.

This weekend I was working a lot, and had my boyfriend come up on Saturday morning to feed the fish. As sweet as this was, i think he overfed them (he said he put in blood worms and a few algae pellets, but they usually will eat only one). Saturday night I fed them and noticed the tank was kind of cloudy (not white cloudy...just kind of hazy) so i added some Waste Control and didn't think much of it...i just attributed it to the dissolved leftover algae pellets.

Sunday night I came home and one of my roomates told me he tried to feed them some bloodworms, but one of the clowns wasn't eating at all and stayed hidden in a pipe. This is unusual because he's usually a very aggressive feeder. I fed them again and everyone was acting normal except for that one clown. He pretty much stayed hidden.

This morning (monday) i woke up to find the one clown behaving very strangely: swimming on his side, floating around upside down, "resting" on the plants and breathing extremely fast. I finally got the brains to check the nitrites and it was at least 5ppm (as high as my test kit goes). The other fish were still behaving almost completely normal...the pleco is hard to tell bc he barely moves during the day anyway, and the other clown was acting a little strange but not too bad.

I freaked out for a minute and then changed about 30% of the water, then ran out to the store and got something called AmQuel+ which removes nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia (btw, my ammonia level is 0).

I changed about 30% again and then added the standard dose (which only removes 2ppm but you can only add one dose per 24hours because it removes oxygen from the water). I made sure the filter was on full blast and my air stone was as close to the bottom as possible. I also did a vacuum.

It is now monday night, and the one clown is still very sick, and pretty much stays motionless, resting on a plant and breathing way too fast. the others are still nearly normal, just a little sluggish. I haven't fed them. My nitrite level is now 0.5ppm

I didn't add salt because i read that clowns are very sensitive to it because they don't really have scales.

Is there anything else i can do, or is it just a waiting game now? I'm planning on changing more water and adding more AmQuel+ tomorrow...

Thanks!

[mayreee]

I would just keep changing more and more water until you get the nitrites below 1ppm. If that means you have to do two 50% water changes, then do that. You aren't going to hurt the fish by doing water changes.

BTW how big is your tank?

EDIT- Sorry I now see they are below 1ppm.

[TKOS]

Don't worry about it removing oxygen fromt he water, just keep doign water changes until the level is low enough. Each water change will add oxygen back into the water.

If the levels keep climbing add a little salt to the water, 1 tsp per gallon of water. Once the nitrites stabilize do water changes to remove the salt. Dissolve the salt first in the change water before adding it in. And table salt that is NaCl will be fine for this instance.

[Cloud-9]

Clown Loaches are a bit sensitive to that sort of thing. If you have a spare tank, you can take out the loaches and add some Methylene Blue. That can usually cure them from the poisoning and it gets them back to eating again.

Your tank is still relatively new. Adding methylene blue to it might increase the amount of time for it to cycle completely. However, that is better than losing two clown loaches. If it comes down to adding Methylene Blue directly to the main tank, then go ahead. Just make sure you feed sparingly until the tank cycles completely.

I have used Methylene Blue for this purpose myself, although not to Clown Loaches but to pictus. I didn't notice any change in the ammonia or nitrate levels afterwards, which would lead me to believe that the filter was not harmed by the medication. But, that was an established tank.

[elal]

The tank is 20 gal.

so salt is ok even for my types of fish?

btw just did another 30percent or so change. still 0.5ppm

[TKOS]

Salt for medicinal purposes at low does is safe for those fish. Not long term or high doses. 1 tsp per gallon of tank water max.

Also your tank is too small for those fish. If you wanted to keep them long term you really need a 75 gallon tank.

[JSchmidt]

Here's a link to a nifty calculator that tells you precisely how much salt you need to add to protect against nitrite toxicity:

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/nitrite_toxicity.php

Jim

[elal]

After adding some more AmQuel+ and doing another water change, my nitrite is now 0ppm....now i'm wondering how long it will be before my fish get back to normal.....that one clown is still breathing a mile a minute. Will he ever get better, or should i put him out of his misery?

Thanks everyone for all your help!

[carpguy]

Yes, he'll get better. Nitrite effects their bloods ability to carry oxygen. That's why they're breathing so heavily. It'll work itself out and soon. No need to euthanize!!

If you want to keep such big fish you should really look into a bigger tank.

You also seem to feed quite heavily. The combination of heavy bioload and heavy feeding sort of compound each other and this situation is sort of the inevitable result of that.

Fish are cold water animals. They don't need to spend all that energy we do keeping our core temperatures 30dF or so above ambient. At the same time they're opportunistic feeders. They eat when they can, even if they don't need to, even if they just have. Its a survival strategy. But just because they'll always eat more doesn't mean they need to or that its good for them. Scale it back a bit and they'll be healthier for it.

[Karnaaj]

In my opinion Prime is a far superior product compared to Amquel, particularly in a new tank.

[JSchmidt]

Why is that?

Jim

[TKOS]

In my opinion water changes are far superior to adding any chemical, even salt.

[Karnaaj]

From what I understand Amquel converts the ammonia into a form not as readily usable by the bacteria in the tank, therefore slowing down the establishment of the nitrogen cycle. TKOS, if everybody had the time to do a 50% water change on their tanks every day or even every other day your argument would hold true. However, I don't think your taking into account the fact that your going to be adding chemicals to your tank anyways because of the dechlor you would HAVE to add to keep from killing your fish. In a perfect world maybe chemicals wouldn't be necessary but I don't believe not using them in this case would be measurably better.

[JSchmidt]

From what I understand Amquel converts the ammonia into a form not as readily usable by the bacteria in the tank, therefore slowing down the establishment of the nitrogen cycle.

That is not correct; the complexed ammonia (after treatment with Amquel) is accessible to nitrifying bacteria.

Jim

[TKOS]

I don't have to do water changes every day as my tank is cycled. I do them once a week. But when a tank is cycling and you have fish in it, it is your duty to keep those fish safe. Since it is short term, daily water changes are not hard. It takes me 15 minutes to change 50% of my tank water. I can do that for the health of my fish.

Hey, use what you want but even with Amquel, daily water changes are going to be needed to deal with "nitrite".

[Karnaaj]

Prime detoxifies nitrite quite well. And you didn't address the issue of all the dechlor you have to use to do all those water changes while the tank is being established.

My misunderstanding Jim. I had been told from various sources that Amquel was not the equivalent of Prime. What is the dosage? I am wondering if it is as economical as Prime.

[TKOS]

A basic dechlorinator (sodium thiosulfate in a 1% solution) is completely non toxic in even high doses.

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/water/chlorine.shtml

Also, if your water contains just chlroine, as mine does, it is simply a matter of aging your water. I have been using the same bottle of dechorlintor (Wardley's) for 2 years now.

And hey, if you want to spend your money on Prime and even if everyone else wants to spend their money on Prime then that is cool. But you speak as it is the best and only option. It seems to me that a simpler option is water changes, but hey that is what I like. And besides if the tank is unbalanced and producing nitrites one does of Prime isn't going to cut it. You will still need to be dosing it as the nitrites climb. So either way you are doing work on the tank everyday while the bacteria catches up. 15 minutes still doesn't seem that long to me.

[elal]

Well, its been a few days, and my fish are alive and well! everyone is breathing normally now and seems to be happy. For the record, the AmQuel was i think about 10$ canadian for about 200ml, and the dose is 5ml per 10gal every 24 hours until the nitrite/ammonia/nitrate is stable at 0...it also removes chlorine/chloramine.....

oh, does anyone have any opinions about this: i currently have loaches and a pleco, which apparently prefer neutral pH....i wanted to get a few mollies, but they prefer slightly alkaline. What do you guys think? would they be ok with neutral or should i avoid them altogether?

[TKOS]

Mollies are generally very tolerant fish and as long as you slowly aclimate them to a new tank they seem to be a fish capable of living in a large variety of conditions. It probably isn't the perfect setup for them but will work.

Before adding anything to your tank I would give it at least a week of stability by itself.

[damion]

Did I miss something? The tread started out as a nitrate problem then converted to nitrite.