Where am I?

[Beeker]

I am setting up my 10 gallon tank and trying to do a fishless cycle. I put in the water, set the heater, got the filter going, and squeezed some gunk off of my other tank's filter into this tank. I went away for a week and let it run. Now I'm back and I tested the water. There isn't any ammonia showing up on the test but the nitrites are high. Where am I in the cycle? What do I do next?

[Dangerdoll]

I believe you need to keep a reading of the params daily for a fishless cycle..... While I believe it's good that you squeezed stuff from the other tank into this one, I don't really think it's enough.... I don't think you can really be 100% sure where you are in the cycle being that you haven't seen the first week of it (daily).

[OrionGirl]

Did you provide a source of ammonia?

[Beeker]

I didn't provide ammonia. Should I start over? I'm in no rush, of course I would love to see the tank up and running, but I'd rather do it right. I don't know how much ammonia how often. This is my first fishless cycle.

[OrionGirl]

You need to dose with ammonia, enough test it around 4-5 ppm at time of dosing. You keep track of what you put in the first time, then as it declines, start dosing again. Since nitrites are already showing up, it's possible this will happen really quickly, but without it, there's not way to verify that the full set nitrifiers are present. Search on Chris Cow's Fishless cycling--there are several threads, and an outline of the entire process as a link.

[Beeker]

I just tested the water again and it is reading very little ammonia and no nitrites. I don't know if it is necessary but I started over again. I squeezed some more gunk into the tank and this time I added ammonia. Should I start with totally new water and everything or just go with what I've got?

[gsk177]

You must know how much ammonia, NH3, you added. You need to add a teaspoon, then test the tank for NH3 to see how many ppm you get. If 1 tsp. gets you to between 4 and 5ppm, then you are good to go. If not, then you add a little more until you reach 4 to 5 ppm.
Once you get an intial reading of 4 to 5 ppm, you stop and start testing your water every day to get a full parameter reading. pH, NO2, NO3, NH3, and KH. When you see the NH3 start to drop, you add a little more NH3 to keep the readings at 4 to 5 ppm NH3 until the NO2 start to rise. Then you stop adding the NH3 and see how long it takes them to get down to zero. When you see the NO2 spike, and your tank consumes the NH3 added withing around 24 hours or so, then you are cycled. You can then do a MASSIVE water change to flush the NO3 and add fish. Continue to test daily for a week or 2 then test weekly as required.
NH3 is needed to feed the bacteria. Without it they will starve.
What you are doing with fishless cycling is esentially replicating a heavy fish load by adding your own ammonia, NH3. This replicates the waste produced by a lot of fish. Your bacteria will eventually start to grow and eat this "waste", the NH3 you added, and eventually grow in number to eat it all. Once your bacteria levels reach a # that will consume the amount of waste or NH3, then you have cycled.

[Beeker]

Perfect post! Thank you for that information! Unfortunately, I bought a defective ammonia test kit at the pet store and I didn't realize it until I had a funny feeling that I was adding too much ammonia. I tested it with a new good tester and the ammonia, I think, is around 8! The nitrites are getting high fast but should I change some water to take out some ammonia? Or would that slow the cycle? Also, the ph is about 8.3. Why? Should I do anything about it, and if so, what?

[gsk177]

Perfect post! Thank you for that information! Unfortunately, I bought a defective ammonia test kit at the pet store and I didn't realize it until I had a funny feeling that I was adding too much ammonia. I tested it with a new good tester and the ammonia, I think, is around 8! The nitrites are getting high fast but should I change some water to take out some ammonia? Or would that slow the cycle? Also, the ph is about 8.3. Why? Should I do anything about it, and if so, what?

Personally, I would do a 50% water change to get the ammonia levels down to no more than 6ppm. You don't want to kill the bacteria with too much ammonia.
I wouldn't get too worried about pH right now, but it is definately something you'll want to look into. If you haven't got one already, get a good test kit. Test your tap water now, and then every 2 or 3 months. Do a full range of tests on it and write it down so you can refer back to it. AFAIK, a normal cycle shouldn't cause a pH increase of more than .6 or so. But at any rate, you need to know what your tap water is so you will know exactly how high it did go up. Know what I mean?

[Beeker]

I got a better test kit and the reading is about 7.7 for both the tap water and the tank water. I did about a 30% water change and brought the ammonia down to 5 and also added more gunk from the other tank filter. How does that sound?

I will do the rest of the tests as soon as I'm done reading all of the directions and information and get everything organized.

[gsk177]

Sounds like you've got it right. Just keep testing your ammonia levels and do NOT add anymore ammonia until the NH3 levels in your tank reach 2ppm, then add another tsp and retest. Wait 24 hours and retest again.

[Beeker]

Just an update: My NH3 levels just hit 2 and my ammonia was 0. I added another tsp of ammonia and retested. My ammonia is at about 6 and my NH3 is still 2. Is that okay?

[gsk177]

NH3 is ammonia. Are you confusing NH3 with NO2 or NO3???
NO2 is NitrIte and NO3 is NitrAte.

[Beeker]

Sorry, I didn't have the stuff right in front of me. I don't have them all memorized yet. The nitrites were at 2 and the ammonia was 0. I added a tsp, retested and the ammonia was about 5 or 6. The nitrites are holding at 2. Sorry for the confusion.

[Harlock]

That sounds about right Beeker. The nitrites will keep rising, and you just keep dosing ammonia up to 5ppm. Once the nitrite gets high, it will start coming down again and you shouls start reading nitrates. The nitrates will continue to rise and nitrites continue to fall, all the while, you are feeding ammonia to get the tank to 5ppm everyday. After a while, ammonia and nitrites will show zero and there will be nitrates present. At this point, add ammonia to 5ppm again, wait 24 hours adn test the water. If ammonia and nitrites go abck to zero in 24 hours, your tank is cycled. After that, it's a large water change to bring the nitrates down and time to pick out your fish.

[Beeker]

It has been 24 hrs since the addition of ammonia and the test of 5. I just tested and the ammonia was 0 and the Nitrites are high. I just added another tsp of ammonia to bring it back up to 5. We'll see in another 24 hrs. I guess. My test kit doesn't have a Nitrate test. I'll have to go get one.

[Beeker]

It has been a little over 24 hours since post #16. I just tested and again, the ammonia is 0 and the nitrites are high. I just added another tsp of ammonia to bring it back up to 5 again. How long does it usually take for the nitrites to go down?

[Harlock]

There is no way of predicting, Beeker. I read recently from someone here in a post that they felt the nitrites took twice as long as the ammonia hitting zero. Just hang in there and keep testing and dosing.

[Beeker]

It has been another 24 hrs. Nitrites are high, ammonia 0. Again, I added another tsp. to bring ammonia up to 5. I'm still waiting.

[Beeker]

Alright, another 24 hrs. has passed since my last post (#19) and my nitrites are still over 1 (That is as high as my chart goes. Maybe nitrites are at 2?) My ammonia is at either .5 or 1. I just got a Nitrate test kit which reads 5. Where am I now?

[gsk177]

You are still going through the process. As has been said before, there is no magical time table for cycling, fishless or fishy. No two tanks are going to cycle at the same rate unless they are set up the exact same way and are being maintained the exact same way, and even then you may still see some variations.

[Beeker]

Why is there some ammonia left over from yesterday? Should I worry about that?

[gsk177]

It may be that your biologicals died off a little from lack of food between dosings. During cycling, things can take unprodictable swings, hence the importance of fishless cycling.

Hang in there, things will level out.

[Beeker]

I think something is wrong. Even less of my ammonia was used in the last 24 hrs since I last posted. The nitrites are still high but the ammonia is at 3 or 4. The nitrates are still only at about 6 or 7. Things were going so well. I can't figure out what happened.

[Beeker]

Can somebody please explain the reason why my numbers are high and what it means. It has been 20 hrs since post #24 and my ammonia is at 3 or 4, my nitrites are at about 2 or 3, and my nitrates are somewhere between 40 and 80 (The colors are too close to tell.) I thought my ammonia was supposed to be low to 0, and when the nitrates go up the nitrites were supposed to be low to 0 too. My Ph is also very low, somewhere between 5 and 6. Can somebody please explain what is happening, why, and what I should do? This whole thread has been the entire history of the cycle I've been going through.

[Dangerdoll]

a full cycle should take anywhere between 6 and 8 weeks, Beeker, be patient, sweetie.... just keep making sure that the ammonia is always put back to 5ppm. If it doesn't change one day, don't add the ammonia..... if it does, add it.

[Beeker]

It has been reccommended to me to do a small water change and add some baking soda. That is what I will do now. Appearently, the drop in Ph was caused by the cycle and that same drop caused the bacteria to slow its burning of the ammonia.

(This post is basically just to keep a record of everything that is going on with my cycle and every step I am taking.)

[mrmcmasty]

Hey Beeker. I am currently fishless cycling a tank as well. I am in my 4th week. I have been experiencing frustrations as well. My amonia levels are now 0 after 24 hrs but my nitrites have camped out at 2 (grrrr) for the past seven days. Many of the same people who are posting here for you are posting in on my thread as well... and the advice is very much the same.

IMO weve chosen the most responsible method of cycling our tanks. I am pretty frustrated as I am sure you are... the only thought that helps me remain patient is: "if I had fish in this tank theyd be dead or dying" when we do add fish we will be adding them to a cycled tank and though it takes a little longer and we do not get to watch fish swim around while we are doing it we are better off and so are our future fish...

sorry I dont have advice other than that so dtasy the course and good luck to you :)

[djlen]

BEEKER, TAKE A BREATH
Sit down and relax a second.
You are not going to hurt anything if there's nothing in the tank to hurt. There are no fish or plants present. You're not in a hurry.
If you are going to make this a planted tank eventually, you have not chosen the best course of action. If not a planted tank, it's pretty much the only course of action.
You are getting some good advice above. You just have to apply it and be patient.
As mentioned above, a fishless cycle varies in length from approx. 4 weeks to 10 weeks. In a 10, it should not take that long.
The cycle is nothing more than building a bio-colony. You add a bit of ammonia and it will give way to nitrites which will use it and give way to nitrates, which will use the nitrites.
Once the nitrites appear you only have to be concerned with the values shown on your nitrite test kit and then start looking for nitrates. Just adding a tiny bit of ammonia to feed the cycle to completion. At a point, down the road, the nitrites will recede, cease adding ammonia and you're ready for a couple of fish. They will supply enough ammonia to complete the cycle. You should then experience zero ammonia and zero nitrites.
Plants use all of these elements and if it's going to be a planted tank, you could have dumped a bunch of cheapie stems in and some floaters, and two small fish and it's 'cycled'. Period. The plants take care of the fish while the tank matures.
The way you've done it is fine for a plantless tank. Just watch for the nitrites to subside and the nitrates to rise and when the ammonia drops to zero you do a 50% water change and can add fish. Your colony is established.
I don't usually haunt this forum, but I will watch for questions if you have any, but in all honesty you are getting good advice.......I already said that didn't I.:)

I responded to your PM here because I could not have been so long winded in a PM(and lord knows, I can be long winded).
I hope this helps. I'd call you 'sweetie' too, but people would talk.........and anyway I'm sure I'm not a cute as Dangerdoll.

Len

[Beeker]

Considering that I am a female, anyone can call me "sweetie" and get away with it. :)
At this point, I understand that I have wasted my time. It is going to be a planted tank, so I didn't have to go through all this craziness. Well, you live and you learn.

I already did a small water change, added some baking soda, and changed the water again.
My numbers are currently:
Ph: 7.4
KH: 8
NO2: .1
NH3: .5
NO3: 80
How does that sound? What is ideal KH? Since I just changed my water and the Nitrates are still at 80 what does that mean and what do I do now?

[Beeker]

I guess I'll add more ammonia. At this point I don't know what to do so I'll just keep doing what I've been doing to try to finish the cycle unless anybody else has any advice. Anybody?

[djlen]

First stop with the water changes, and don't add any more ammonia.:)
Second, read your latest PM.
Third, please do as instructed.:)

Sorry about the reference to 'sweetie'. I forgot that you were of the female persuasion..................................sweeti e.

Len

[Beeker]

Djlen,
Here I am... I have a 10 gal. tank with water, a running filter, an ornament, gunk on the bottom, a heater, and a light on a timer set to be on for 12 hrs. The only things it doesn't have is the substrate, plants, and fish. The substrate is on order and I heard that if I put plants in they screw up the cycle.
I also tested the tap water like you said.
If I leave it overnight.
Ph: 7.8
KH: 5
GH: 6
NH: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 0
If I test it straight from the tap and not after leaving it overnight everything but the Ph is a little higher.

[Beeker]

It has been about 24 hrs. since yesterday's ordeal (posts 25-31). The tank's test results are:
Ph: 7.8
KH: 8
NH: 0
NO2: .1
NO3: around 80
That is supposed to be good, right?

[Beeker]

Right now, I'm doing nothing... Just waiting for the Nitrites to hit 0. The substrate is on order (the store ran out of Flourite, and I plan on using straight flourite for substrate). I plan on checking out those screw in flourescents instead of the regular bulbs I am currently using. As soon as I get the substrate, I will buy the plants and set up the rest of the tank. Once the plants are steady, I will get my fish. My Member Page has my list of plants and fish I intend to use. I have checked for compatibility. Everything should be good. If not, I won't get the Betta, and get something else instead.

[djlen]

Okay - You can't do anything with the tank until you get your substrate.
As I mentioned previously, the 'cycle' is the process of growing a bio-colony.
Without something in the tank, the bacteria have no place to colonize.
The good news is that you don't need to do anything to 'cycle' your tank if you intend to plant it.
Here's the process I recommend:
Empty the tank. Once the Flourite comes, rinse it to remove excess dust(there will be a ton of this which will take some time to get rid of) in a bucket.
One 15lb. bag of Flourite will do the job in a 10.
Once you've rinsed the substrate you are left with an empty tank and a bucket of Flourite.
Into the bottom of the empty tank you will sprinkle a dusting of ground, plain peat moss(with no additives....just plain peat moss). By a dusting, I mean a handful or just a bit more, spread out over the bottom of the tank.
Now, over top of that dusting you will lay about 1/2" of Flourite(enough to cover the peat).
You said you have another tank. Squeeze out the filter sponges/pads into a bucket and siphon that gunk over the surface of the 1/2" of Flourite.
Now add the rest of the Flourite over that, banking it so that you have about 1" in front and 2 - 3" in the back.
Take an empty bowl and set it on the banked substrate and fill the tank slowly by filling the bowl and allowing the water to then overflow the bowl and fill the tank. This will cut way down on disturbing the substrate and reduce clouding. Flourite is a mess to deal with, but filling slowly, using a bowl will leave you with a relatively cloud-free tank which will clear over night.
Crank up your filter, plant as heavily as you can and you now have a tank that you can put 2 small fish into. The peat and gunk(mulm) that you've taken from your other tank's filter are loaded with bacteria and will jump start your bio-filter. The 2 fish will supply ammonia to keep it going.
In a couple of weeks you will be ready to add another fish or two. In a month a few more and so on.

You mention lighting. I use two 23 watt CF bulbs in my 10 gal. with good success. You can start with one and see how it goes from there.
Buy only bulbs that are 5000K or higher for your tank. Many of the bulbs out there are 2300 - 3400K(Kelvin rating) and those will make your tank look yellow. You will hate that color......trust me on this. The plants don't care, but the look to the human eye is ugly, IMO.
I hope this helps, and now you see why we couldn't do this in a PM!!:)

Len