Emperor vs. Penguin

[gali]

I'm setting up a 38 gal and consider getting either an emperor 280 or a penguin 200 for it (as they're both supposed to be good upto 50 gal. I know the emperors are supposed to be better (more reliable?) but wonder if anyone has any input comparing the two. I found lots of info regarding bio-wheel pro and cons, but no comparison, really.

I know the emperor is noisy - I heard it at a friend's house and it was a bit too much (although if it is better I will try yo get used to it!). Are penguins the same?
Then again, I've heard penguins tend to break more...

I don't intend to keep live plats at this point but would like to give them a try in the future, so thoughts about that are also welcome.

Also is bigger better when it comes to filters? If I use, say, a penguin 330 (or the new 350) will I be able to stock more heavily, or will it make filtering a little faster?

TIA.

[Dangerdoll]

hmmmm...... the emporer seems quieter in my tank..... not sure why your friends is noisy or maybe I'm just immune to the noise. Anyhoo, I like the emporer better because of the spray bar which forces the bio wheels, where the penguin's don't have the spray bar. Now, since the Penguins don't have the spray bar running along with the biowheels, the wheels tend to slow down (if not stop) on the Penguin. Some say this is ok, and I never really had a problem with either but I like the wheel to move. Also, the Emporer has a control valve for the return flow for the water.... and the hinged top.... there are more benefits in my opinion for the Emporer over the Penguin.

[daveedka]

I'm in full agreement with the Doll. The spray bars are the key for me.
My emp is pretty quiet (can't hear it from 8' away) but if it makes noise, it either means the water level is too low, the flow is reduced ( when you adjust flow to low it gets louder) or most often, the impellar needs cleaned.
Dave

[Harlock]

If you are considering a planted tank in the future, I would really recommend a canister filter. I currently use two Penguin 125s on my 29 gallon tank and I am very fond of them. I have no issues with the biowheels stopping, though they do slow down (they're supposed to) but I am not afraid to rinse them in tank water every other week or so either, to keep buildup off. My biofilter has never taken a hit from this either, so I feel it's safe. You were correct in thinking that a bigger filter is better. It has many benefits, not the least of which is a cleaner tank that is prettier to look at. I shoot for 8-10 times total water volume per hour in filtration. So, for a 38 gallon I would want at least 310 gallons per hour up to 380 gallons per hour or even slightly more. The 330 falls right in that range. If you think a planted tank is a fwe years down the road, then go ahead and get an Emperor or Penguin. Both are nice filters that do a bang up job and are easy to maintain. I personally will avoid the Emperors because I worry about the spraybar getting clogged. We have terrible water here in that the gH is 420 out of the tap, so things like that tend to clog eventually. Water valves on clothes washers, dishwashers, level valves on water heaters.... it all goes to crap here after about 5-6 years becaus of the poor water. The Penguin is simpler with fewer moving parts so is better-suited for me.

[Rushdude]

In my opinion, using an emperor 280 or penguin 200 would be under filtering a 38 gallon. I would go with at least and emperor 400 or penguin 330. I have had great luck with penguins, never tried the emperor. If you are concerned about noise you should get a canister filter like stated above.

[Spikor]

I think it is a matter of 'quality and luxury' more than effectiveness. i don't know off hand how much the price difference is between the two but i think of it as Penguin is to Emperor what Toyota is to Lexus.
They are both made by the same company, but one is high priced and has a few more features...but they both run great and get you where you need to be.

Especially with the NEWER Penguins that just came out for a great price,...i'd have to go with it. just looked up prices and it seems that on bigals.com, $20 for Penguin, $33 for emperor for nearly the same filter.

for my 29 gallon, i have a Penguin 200 and it seems to flow great for now...though if i could have a flow regulator, i'd likely consider it since i am planning on adding plants and CO2...and since less surface agitation tends to help with CO2 getting dissolved into the water, that would definately be a perk.

[Harlock]

for my 29 gallon, i have a Penguin 200 and it seems to flow great for now...though if i could have a flow regulator, i'd likely consider it since i am planning on adding plants and CO2...and since less surface agitation tends to help with CO2 getting dissolved into the water, that would definately be a perk.
Just a FWIW kind of thing; If you dose with Flourish Excel for CO2 needs, it won't gas off. You can order like 4 litres on Big Al's and it'll last you over a year. If a picture is worth a thousand words, click the link in my sig and look at my plants and keep in mind there are 2 Penguin 125's spinning along nicely on that tank. ;)

[gali]

Thanks for the input, everyone! I first thought I'd go with the Emperor but not so sure now...


In my opinion, using an emperor 280 or penguin 200 would be under filtering a 38 gallon. I would go with at least and emperor 400 or penguin 330.
I hoped Marineland knew what they say - both the e280 and p200 are listed as good for tanks up to 50 gal (although I can see a clear advantage for the emperor here). I will get a larger one if needed as I'd rather do it now and not in a few months.
Any input on that? What's people's tank/filter sizes?


If you are concerned about noise you should get a canister filter like stated above.

Naturally, a double biowheel means double noise? The tank will be located in our dining room, and we'd like to keep it quiet if possible.
Mayby I should get a canister filter :confused:. I'll start researching those as well...

[JSchmidt]

I don't find my Emperors to be any noisier than similarly sized Penguins. I prefer the Emperor because the filter well is a bit bigger. That allows me to use a big ol' piece of Aquaclear foam (as mechanical media instead of the Marineland cartridges) and my Emps seem to capture more gunk than the Penguins.

Bottom line, though, is that either would probably work fine.

It's impossible to say if an Emp 280 would be sufficient for a 38 gallon tank without knowing anything about stocking levels. If you stock lightly with not-too-messy fish (e.g., tetras) you'd have more than enough filtration. If you try to keep a colony of cichlids, you might not have enough filtration. It just depends on what you put in the tank.

Jim

[gali]

It's impossible to say if an Emp 280 would be sufficient for a 38 gallon tank without knowing anything about stocking levels. If you stock lightly with not-too-messy fish (e.g., tetras) you'd have more than enough filtration. If you try to keep a colony of cichlids, you might not have enough filtration. It just depends on what you put in the tank.


True :)
I will start with a community for now - probably some tetras, cherry barbs, gouramis and a few otos/corys. maybe add an angel fish at some point (my son really wants one) but that will wait till phase 2.
I would like to be able to stock more if possible (not necesasrily do it, just have the option). So I think I'd better go with a bigger filter to be on the safe side. I'll check the penguin 350.

[JSchmidt]

Sounds like a good plan. Just one thing: if you plan to add an angel, be careful with the other fish. Many smaller, nippier fish are not good tankmates for angels.

Jim

[Dangerdoll]

I was using the single wheel Emporer on my 30 gallon, but changed to the 400 (double-wheel) and am so glad I did...... I guess the smaller one was working but my personal opinion is that the bigger one is better.... and not at all noisier.

[Harlock]

I hoped Marineland knew what they say - both the e280 and p200 are listed as good for tanks up to 50 gal (although I can see a clear advantage for the emperor here). I will get a larger one if needed as I'd rather do it now and not in a few months.
Any input on that? What's people's tank/filter sizes?If you read my first post you will see the general rule of thumb I learned from this forum: 5 times your water's total volume filtered per hour is minimum. 8-10 times is where most folks want to operate. For you, a filter that pushed 310 gallons to 380 gallons per hour would be in the 8-10 range. The 330 is right in line with that thinking. Also, 2 of the Penguin 200s would work, giving you a little bit of over filtration, which is not a bad thing at all.

[JSchmidt]

I was using the single wheel Emporer on my 30 gallon, but changed to the 400 (double-wheel) and am so glad I did...... I guess the smaller one was working but my personal opinion is that the bigger one is better.... and not at all noisier.

Holy cow, Doll! An Emp 400 on a 30? When I put my 400 on a 30 long it looked like a riverine tank? The poor fish were tossed assunder by the current. Do you throttle yours back or do something to disperse the current?

Jim

[Dangerdoll]

yeah Jim, I keep the flow pretty low but not the lowest, and I guess the reason my fish aren't banging across the opposite site of the tank is because they're growing so quickly and are pretty much adapted to it.... I wouldn't think that a 30 gallon full of guppies would be able to handle it I guess..... I forget how big my babies are....... I have 2 oranda goldies in there so the bigger the filtration, the better.... here they are when they were a little smaller...... the panda one (front) is the bigger of the two, is about the size of a small fist :)
http://pic15.picturetrail.com/VOL565/2333914/inbox/42360.jpg

[gali]

After doing a little more reading I decided to go with the penguin 350. I ordered one online (it's half the price than at my lps. Unbelievable). If anyone's interested, I'll share my thoughts when I get it.
Now I need to be patient. I ordered an ebo a few days ago so hopefully that will also arrive soon. Unless something happens, I will start cycling next week :D :D

Thanks you all for the help. I'll probably be back with more questions once things get going.

[JSchmidt]

yeah Jim, I keep the flow pretty low but not the lowest, and I guess the reason my fish aren't banging across the opposite site of the tank is because they're growing so quickly and are pretty much adapted to it.... I wouldn't think that a 30 gallon full of guppies would be able to handle it I guess..... I forget how big my babies are....... I have 2 lion-head goldies in there so the bigger the filtration, the better.... here they are when they were a little smaller...... the panda one (front) is the bigger of the two, is about the size of a small fist


I guess you NEED an Emperor 400 then... those are some large fishies! Pretty, too.

Jim

[Dangerdoll]

;) thanks bud