Using Biospira

[ShmooBeast]

I am preparing to cycle my 55 gallon tank, and planned to do it fishlessly. I just heard about Biospira and it sounds like a great product. Does anyone have any advice, information, personal experience to share? A newbie with the whole fishless cyling thing so any help/comments appreciated. Thanks.

[Bowserfins]

Never used it, but I would have used it in hindsight for my first tank........
What I have heard is that it is THE ONLY product on the market that does what it says.... Cycles tanks with 24-48 hours.... After the 24-48 hours the tank is cycled then you may add fish( I wouldnt overload just add a few at a time over a period of weeks.) You should buy a good aquarium test kit with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate indicators and after the 24-48 hours test to make sure it is ready( even if you dont use bio-spira, you should have a test kit to help you through the cycle at the bare minimum...)

It is hard for a noob to wait 4-8 weeks to fishless cycle and thats what happened to me, I couldnt take it with my very first tank, I lasted about 1 week and then added fish. I was very fortunate and didnt suffer any losses during the cycle, but the 4 cichlids I chose to add at first didnt make it more than 6 months in my tank..... Everything else in that tank has been fine for over a year and still growing strong....... I have since added 4 more tanks, and with each subsequent tank I have just used filter media from a prior tank to cycle the new tank.....

That is another excellent option for you, if you can find existing media from an established tank that will fit into your filter(s) then thats a cheaper way to go and essentially does the same thing. Sometimes local fish stores will be kind enough to give you some media....

IF you do have the extra $20 plus dollars Id go for the biospira, just make sure you buy it from a reputable business whom you trust to keep it well. It is refridgerated in order to keep the bacteria alive and I believe there is a date on it....... Any mishandling of it can reduce or kill the live bacteria and then you have wasted your money so dont buy it until you are ready to use it....

Hope this helps

[Spikor]

First, what size tank? Do you already have a tank?

As far as it doing a fishless cycle in 48 hours...hmmm. As far as I understand it, the cycle doesn't begin until you add AMMONIA to the tank, NOT JUST BACTERIA. When you add ammonia, the bacteria starts breaking it down and they cycle really begins. i'm not the best to try to explain this, though i've had really good success cycling new tanks. there are a lot of 'facts' that i don't want to try to say right now because i know i'll get something backwards.

as far as my cycles go, i've used a similar product called "cycle". I think it worked pretty well. the trick is not to put it in right after a water change (even though it says to!) when you add new water you also should be adding the dechlorinator (I use Seachem PRIME! kicks butt). I hear that the dechlorinator can kill some of the bacteria you are trying to add using the chemical. so wait 30 minutes and then douse your system. i have a biowheel and i add it straight to that and it really gets that wheel developed quickly.

if you want to do a fishless cycle, there are some threads on it here. do a search for it. but i'd just get some hardy cheap fish like zebra danios or something like that. they are very tolerant of PH swings (within reason).

if you already have a tank and are trying to start a new tank, i would HIGHLY recommend setting up your new filter on the old tank for a few weeks to build up bacteria especially if it has a bio-wheel. and i'd also take some of the gravel over if you can and a rock decoration if you have it available. these are things that can really jumpstart your tank.

my tank that i did this with ran a week without showing any signs of cycling. the following week it looked about halfway cycled, and the next week it was done. so it was only showing signs of cycling for about a week! just don't overstock or overfeed !

[Harlock]

I would use BIO-Spira if you can get it from a local, reliable source who can promise you it is not out of date and that it has been handled properly. Then, I would take it home, add it to my tank, and dose with enough clear, safe surfactant free ammonia to get to 5 ppm. After 24 hours, I would test my water. If ammonia was at 0 and nitrite was reading 0 and there were nitrates present at ~10, I would dose again with ammonia to 5 ppm. If the readings are the same, congrats, you are cycled. Go add a full bioload of fish. You do not ened to be patient and add a fwe at a time as that will only allow the cycleed bacteria to die back only to accomadate as many fish as you added.

If the numbers were different, say you had detectable ammonia and nitrites and nitrates, you just do the daily testing and dosing of ammonia to bring it to 5 ppm. Eventually, once you get the readings I mentioned above for 48 hours, you are good to go. BIO-Spira has worked great for some people. We're talking 24 hour cycles. Some folks have seen it take as long as a week with some pretty high ammonia spikes. Others have gotten a batch that was mishandled or out of date or otherwise didn't work and had a fishy cycle on their hands... that's why I recommend testing just as you would a fishless cycle, because after all, BIO-Spira ia all about not having to kill fish and change water all the darn time, right?

[nvan2]

Ive got a quick question:

Biospira doesnt need to start on amonia right? my tank is somewhere in the proces of cycling, and the amonia is already gone, but the nitrites are high and such. does adding biospira when amonia is already gone, nitrites are up, and fish are already int he tank work?

[Harlock]

Yes, it can and does. Reson being it has ammonia eaters and nitrite eaters in the package. That's the only way a tank can cycle so quickly with it. Sop, the ammonia eaters may starve, but the nitrite eaters should kick in. Of course, there are no guarantees with BIO-Spira, so... still, if you think the money is worth a shot, then I would do it.

[ShmooBeast]

My tank is a 55 gallon, as stated earlier. I was doing a fishy cycle, having not previously had info on fishless cycling. However, having discovered it I don't plan on using fishy cyling again soon. My current cyle was interupted by an Ich outbreak and I thought that maybe biospira would be a quick way of restarting a fishless cylce.

I do not agree with buying a few cheap danios or others and exsposing them to that, it shortens their life span and can be damaging. Granted fishy cycles can be done right occasionaly.

Biospira sounds like God's gift to aquarists quite frankly :). Thanks for all the info. From what I understand though, you're saying you still need to add pure ammonia, right? I've heard the best place to find it is at a hardware store, is that correct?

[nvan2]

that would be my bet.

[daveedka]

I have heard nothing but good things about bio-spira as well, and nothing but bad things about "Cycle" so I would suggest avoiding "cycle" completely. Do you have access to any other mature tanks? Quite honestly, no matter how good bio-spira is, it costs more and is not any better than live filter media or even gravel from a cycled tank. Borrow some filter media from another tank add your ammonia and you'll be well on your way. If the borrowed media doesn't fit in your filter, bag it and hang it in your tank. Leave it there until you cycle is complete and then put it back from whence it came. If you don't have access then I'd definately go with Bio-spira.

Dave

[Benson]

I've used Bio-Spira before. What you do is introduce fish and the Bio-Spira at the same time. That is the ammonia source. My tank was cycled in 48 hours. It’s a 29 gallon with Zebra Loaches, Peppered Cories, and three Angelfish. It works. I did my 10 gallon the same way. Didn't have to fishy cycle or do the long fishless cycle. Both tanks are running great and all the levels have stayed at the proper levels. I test at every cleaning then some, so that is as much as 3 or 4 times a week. I do my weekly or twice weekly water changes and gravel vacuuming... The tanks are doing great and the fish are loving it!!!

[Harlock]

Yeah, hardware store. I think I recall the name Seamist being mentioned as available at Wal-Mart and being safe. Benson is correct too. You can add BIO-Spira and fish all at once, but just be aware of the fact that some of us (myself included) have not gotten the 24-48 cycle but have had it go as long as a week, or even not cycle at all for 3-4 weeks (which means a regular fishy cycle with a FULL bioload and the BIO-Spira was of no benefit, which is what I got stuck with). So, I really recommend testing the BIO-Spira against ammonia. If you only have to dose ammonia twice to know you're cycled, great! If you have to dose for a week or more, you know that you just saved yourself a ton of time and effort from having to deal with a fishy cycle. Either way, you are sure and fish don't die. ;)

[daveedka]

If you only have to dose ammonia twice to know you're cycled, great! If you have to dose for a week or more, you know that you just saved yourself a ton of time and effort from having to deal with a fishy cycle. Either way, you are sure and fish don't die.

I would also add that This is a good way to do things with borrowed media as well. I can and have instanly estabilished a new tank with gravel transferred from one RFUG to another, but I always dose ammonia and then test to make sure the environment is ready for fish. I much prefer to do my water changes when I want rather than when the ammonia tells me to.
Dave

[Greenmagi]

I was wondering if the quesiton was for a tank with no other established tanks in the house. it doent take a few weeks to cycle biological filtration media in an established tank... denitrifing bacteria doubles in a 24hr period... in other words if the amount of media you are trying to get ready for the new tank is not larger than the amount of media in the established tank 24 hours should be enough time to fully populate the new media.
If I was using a product that said it had live bacteria in it I whould first probibly get the seachem brand... then I would add a small amount fish food to start the process.
I generaly use feeder guppies to cycle a new system.. most of the fish I keep will eat them after I introduce them.

[Must4ng s4lly]

I use Bio-spira on a regular basis and think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread! i recently set up six - 20 gallon tanks for breeding and did not want to wait for the fishy cycle. I put the fish and biospira in at the same time. it does work, but you still need to feed very lightly, check water parameters daily. I changed the water about every third day for the first two weeks. I did have some slight spikes in ammonia and nitrites. I also had to add the Bio-Spira more than once. One thing I will say, is that it was a bit expensive, but it got the whole fishy cycle done in two weeks whereas on my 75 & 58 it took two months to cycle. I have very hard water (8.6) that causes even low levels ammonia & nititries to be really toxic to fish.

I DEFINITELY agree that you have to be REALLY sure that the store where you buy Bio-spira handled it correctly. There is one store here in Houston that mishandled it and I wasted $60 on it. It was totally bad! It must be kept refigerated all the time....
Also, I don't like to use gravel / media from another tank as you chance passing on disease to your new tank. I tried this once and it did not really prove very beneficial to the tank either....

[pbecot01]

Do it the way Harlock said... but the bio-spira in there, then test it with ammonia (that's what the ammonia is for, not to cycle it)

if the ammonia gets cleaned up the first day, your tank is allready cycled. I had a good experience with biospira...I never saw detectable levels of ammonia or nitrites during the cycle on my 75 gallon. It would have been better to test the cycle before adding the fish though.

[HeinekenMike]

I was talking to JS about this product in the "cycle" sticky thread for noobs. I have a 72 gallon bowfront its been running for 2 days and I think I am ready to try the BioSpira. I asked my LFS about getting some ammonia to test things and thay had no idea what I was talking about.... where do you get that stuff? also any more advise on the BioSpira or tips from veteran users? also if this stuff is so good, why dosent everyone use it? why even cycle at all if theres a product like this? :dance

[Gunnie]

Harlock is telling you to add ammonia to your tank after adding the bio spira so you can be sure your bio bugs are alive and working. Bio spira is meant to be used with live fish as being the ammonia source, but to be on the safe side, you test your bio spira with the ammonia instead. Everyone doesn't use it because it is not cheap, it's hard for most to find, and you never know if your batch is good until you use it. I have used it 3 times with perfect results, and can tell you it's a great product for emergency situations like I had. If it wasn't for bio spira, my fish would have died or been badly affected. You must get it from a reliable source. I trust Bernie completely, and highly recommend The Fish Store (http://www.fishstoretn.com). He ships all over the U.S., Canada, and other countries including the UK. ;)

[JSchmidt]

If I was starting out, I'd use BioSpira. Most of us with tanks already running have a ready source of bacterial inocculant, making BioSpira unnecessary.

Jim

[HeinekenMike]

ok thanks, I will talk to my LFS and make sure the stuff has been handeld correctly then give it a go

[HeinekenMike]

forgetfull me - I almost forgot to ask, should I stock a few plants right away with the fish and the biospirra? or just the fish?

[Gunnie]

Mike, the plants won't make any difference if you add them right away. The bio spira will adjust to the amount of ammonia in the tank.

[nvan2]

Just a caution: If your buying bio-spira froma retailer, make sure you ask them if it was for sure handled correctly. Bio-spira should do exactly what it says. However, i baught some twice from a petstore in my area, and made sure i kept it at appropriate temps while it was in my posession (even in the car on the way home), i even used it asap. Both times it did absolutly nothing.

A lot of retailers (at least in my area) have never even heard of bio-spira, so i assume they arent really familiar with how it should be handled. Probably let it sit out before they stocked it in the refrigerator.

[HeinekenMike]

ok I feel like a total "NOOB" I went to my LFS tonight and told them I wanted the biospira and and wanted to get started. he assured the biospira was handeled correctly and very rarly do thay get someone who comes in and say it dosent work. but he said I had do a full load of fish with bio spira, so I would have to buy pretty much all the fish I wanted to stock my 72G with tonight with the bio spira otherwise it wouldent work because the bacteria would starve to death if there wasent enough fish to produce enough waste. I asked about buying ammonia and doing biospirra and he said I had to have the full load of fish to go with it, some how I brought home 8 tetra's and a water testing kit.... what should I do? I am really worried if I buy the full load of fish and the biospira dosent work I am outa like 100 bucks atleast.
*also here is the offical link to biospira incase anyone wants it http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp

[Harlock]

I asked about buying ammonia and doing biospirra and he said I had to have the full load of fish to go with it, some how I brought home 8 tetra's and a water testing kit.... what should I do? I am really worried if I buy the full load of fish and the biospira dosent work I am outa like 100 bucks atleast.
*also here is the offical link to biospira incase anyone wants it http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/ML_biospira.asp
LFSs rarely understand fishless cycling. It is true that you need to add a full bioload to a tank in which you add BIO-Spira. That bioload can come from a natural source, say fish, or from a chemical source, bottle ammonia. There is no difference to the bacteria. Ammonia is ammonia as far as the BIO-Spira is concerned. Now that you have a testnig kit you could have added ammonia to a reading of 5 ppm and then tested ammonia, nitrites and nitrates the next day. If ammonia and nitrites were zero and there were nitrates present at around 10, you'd have been in okay shape. Since fish are now involved it confuses things.

You cannot add that level of ammonia to a tank with fish in it. It is lethal to them. Also, BIO-Spira, while being excellent stuff, doesn't always cycle a tank instantly, or even in a week's time. So, your options are: take the fish back to the LFS, buy ammonia and start adding it within 24 hours of adding the BIO-Spira (safest and allows you to fully stock your tank); buying your total fish load and hoping the BIO-Spira was all good and that you don't end up with a fishy cycle for a few days or weeks (not much fun or very safe and possibly expensive and labor intensive as well as stressful); keeping the 8 fish, testing the BIO-Spira and running the risk of a bacterial die-off that adjusts itself to the bioload of 8 fish, and then adding just a few fish slowly every couple of weeks or so, like you had done a fishy cycle (also safe, but the tank isn't full for a while and you have to test the water for a longer stretch).

To me, the peace of mind of knowing my BIO-Spira is good before I add fish is most appealing. The best case scenario with plain ammonia is you test the water for a couple of days, all the levels are fine and you go back, buy all of your fish and get to enjoy them more because you're not sweating daily water changes (sometimes twice a day). Worst case with BIO-Spira is that it doesn't work and you end up fishy cycling with a full bioload. I can tell you it is hard enough fishy cyling with a reduced bioload, to say nothing of how tedious and likely lethal for your tank's occupants a full bioload cycle would go.

So, there are my thoughts. As I stated when I opened, most LFSs do not understand fishless cycling at all and push for fishy cycles. I really wouldn't expect them to understand testing BIO-Spira with a fishless load either.

[HeinekenMike]

ok great, now I just need to find some ammonia, my LFS said he dident sell it where do i get it, and is there a special kind?

[Harlock]

Indeed there is. You need plain ammonia. It usually comes in a solution like 10% ammonium hydroxide, or something like that. You want to buy the clear ammonia with no additives. It needs to be pure ammonia. No lemon scent, no surfactants, no color.

Seamist from Wal-Mart is a brand I heard of. Some bottle that simply say Janitorial ammonia work as well. If you have doubts about it, just remember all I said above, and then, shake the bottle. If any bubbles form at the top, they should not be lasting bubbles. That would be indicative of a surfactant in the bottle. So give it a shake and if bubbles last more than a second or two, it's no good for your tank.

HTH

[HeinekenMike]

once I start adding it how many drops will I need for a 72G to get it to 5p, also once its there How long does it normally take biospira to eat the ammonia and get the tank back down to a safe level?

[HeinekenMike]

boy your going to hate me, instead of buying the ammonia I put a full bioload of fish in it and some plants, I put 90 Gallons worth of biospirra in immediately after the fish where introduced. I felt very comfortable with buying the biospirra because I talked to the manager at one of my LFS's and he insured me it was handled correctly and that they just got the shipment a few days ago and it went strait from the icepacked refriged shipment to there refrig. I brought it home packed with ice packs (even though it was only a 10 minute drive I didn't want to take any chanchs) and then and only then took it off ice, opened the 3 packages and put it in. I will keep you guys updated on this post if you want on its effects and my ammonia and nitrite levels as a learning tool for future potential buyers, or if all hell breaks lose and it doesn't work - that would be there also. DONT YELL AT ME TO HARD! the LFS had a 50% off on all freshwater fish on stock and the biospirra seemed to good to be true because it was on sale to and thay just got it! :bowing:

[HeinekenMike]

ok before I put any fish in the tank ammonia tested 1.5 now its been over 24 hours with all the fish and the bio spirra and it still test 1.5 I guess my question is why did it test 1.5 with no fish at all? and why would it still test 1.5 24+ hours after a full bioload, if the biospira dident work I would expect a ammonia increase, if it did work I would expect a decrease right? maybe my ammonia test is bad?

[Harlock]

ok before I put any fish in the tank ammonia tested 1.5 now its been over 24 hours with all the fish and the bio spirra and it still test 1.5 I guess my question is why did it test 1.5 with no fish at all? and why would it still test 1.5 24+ hours after a full bioload, if the biospira dident work I would expect a ammonia increase, if it did work I would expect a decrease right? maybe my ammonia test is bad?
Firstly, no one will yell at you, but if you end up doing 50% water changes for a week or more on a 72 gallon tank you may be yelling at yourself. ;)

Now then, ammonia being present in tap water isn;t all that uncommon these days. Many water utilities are treating with something called chloramines. It is bonded ammonia and chlorine. It's terrible for fish, The biggest problem with chloramines is that most plain water conditioners do not actually destroy the ammonia, even though the bottle will says that it treats chloramines (and don;t ask my why a company would be so irresponsible as to insinuate something that might kill your stock). Normal water conditioners treat chlorine. When added to a tank with chloramines it kills the chlorine and leaves, you guessed it, ammonia floating in your tank. Not very nice, is it?

The solution is to treat with Amquel or Prime. I know these two will treat not only the chlorine, but also bond with the ammonia to create ammonium, which is non-lethal to fish and stil beneficial to any live plants you may have. I suggest these two brands only because I see their names mentioned more than any others and I have sued both so know they do what they claim to do. I prefer Prime, if that matters to you, as it is very concentrated stuff and seems to be cheaper in the long run.

The problem, as you suggested, may also be your test kit. If your water is chloraminated and you are using Prime or Amquel, but using a Nessler-based test kit, then you are probably getting false results. If you test kit is Salicylate-based then the results may be real, if the test kit is not expired and working correctly. I would test my water, then bring it to the LFS where I purchsed my fish and such and ask them to test it. Most LFS test water for free as a customer courtesy. This way, you can compare results. Honestly, as long as there were any ammonia present in one of my tanks, I would be doing large volume water changes and daily, to twice daily testing, if necessary, to ensure the health of my livestock.

[HeinekenMike]

went to the LFS had them Test it, it came up close to what i got, closer to 1.0 though. anyway I got the prime and put in cap full, I also found out that my city does use what you where talking about to treat the water. How long does it take the prime to work? I am kind of getting off topic for this thread now lol... so to keep it on topic, will the prime kill the bacteria i introduced into the biospirra or effect it in anyway? when should my next water change be and should I add more biospira?

[Harlock]

Okay, Prime is great, it works almost instantly. The Prime will not kill the bacteria. In fact, it converts the ammonia to ammonium, which is still a nutrient source for the bacteria. So, treating with Prime is the same for bacteria and plants, but better for fish, sinec ammonia kills them, but ammonium doesn't. I would let the tank rest 24 hours after BIO-Spira, to make sure it settles and attaches. After that, daily water changes until I start seeing ammonia and nitrite readings of zero.

[HeinekenMike]

wow your right my ammonia is 0.25 now! nitrites are at the lowist thay show on the test .3 are you sure I want to start water changes tommrow? it Would appear the biospira and Prime are working so far, but I still have a long ways to go. however the water was 1.5 ammonia before fish and unknown nitrites. add prime with every water change also I guess? how many days should I show amonia at 0 to be considered cycled? I have herd some storys of a few days with the biospira.

[Harlock]

wow your right my ammonia is 0.25 now! nitrites are at the lowist thay show on the test .3 are you sure I want to start water changes tommrow? it Would appear the biospira and Prime are working so far, but I still have a long ways to go. however the water was 1.5 ammonia before fish and unknown nitrites. add prime with every water change also I guess? how many days should I show amonia at 0 to be considered cycled? I have herd some storys of a few days with the biospira.
Yes, I am sure. Water changes do not remove the bacteria from the water as they attach to surfaces via adsorption and fluid dynamics, Brownian motion... a bunch of scientific stuff. What it means is the bacteria grab on to surfaces and cling to them. They don't live in the water column. If you're seeing the bacteria at work, they are settling. You may not have as long a way to go as you think, actually. If the BIO-Spira worked correctly it added ammonia eaters and nitrite eaters. Once they settle to a level appropriate for your tank size, you're cycled. And yes, add Prime according to the directions with every water change. In order to be cycled, a tank needs to be able to convert all of the ammonia its occupants produce into nitrates in 24 hours. So, what you want to look for is ammonia and nitrite to test at 0 for a couple of days in a row with a nitrate reading at or around 10. That means they are working, the levels have stabilized and you are cycled.

[HeinekenMike]

ok Ill let you know, thanks a million for the incredible help and great information so far! :bowing:

[HeinekenMike]

ammonia finnaly tested 0 today! o ya, no water changes so far, but I noticed some stuff starting to grow on the inside of the tank which looks like algee which is a great sighn I think! my nitrates are testing the lowist possible which is 0.3

[Harlock]

ammonia finnaly tested 0 today! o ya, no water changes so far, but I noticed some stuff starting to grow on the inside of the tank which looks like algee which is a great sighn I think! my nitrates are testing the lowist possible which is 0.3
Cool! Just keep it up and nitrites will spike soon and then taper down.

[chinnp]

I've heard nothing but good things about bio-spira. I've also heard there's a new product on the market that's even better b/c it doesn't have to be kept cold. It's a bacteriological spore instead of a bacteria culture. I don't remember the name of it, but a couple of guys at the LFS were discussing it the other day.

[angrytodd]

I gotta say that throughout this whole thread not one mention of how much amo is added per gal.This is VERY important as i put 2 capfuls in and then found out that was wayyyy to much.I've actually had to drain and clean and start over,and it sucks.All cycle threads should start out with the perscribed amounts.8-10 drops per 10gal.Then test! :mad: