Happychem, A Question For You

[Aquabum]

As you know, others and I are having a difficult time with Eco-Complete. Recently, I lost 1 glow fish and I lost my cherry shrimp.:sad I’ve been doing 30% weekly water changes, and it seems that most of my fish are tolerating the imbalance that this substrate is causing. Right now, my Ph is 7.6, Kh is 12 and continues to rise if it weren’t for the water changes. My Gh is through the roof at 11 nearly 12. My poor fish are living in brackish water conditions. I tried to put an otto in my tank to clean up some of the algae, and the poor thing died within an hour. To say that this substrate is a disappointment for me, is definitely an understatement. :mad2

I really don’t want to wait for who knows how long for this stuff to stabilize itself with water changes. It seems like forever before water changes will actually make a dent in the water chemistry. Now, I know this might be a little drastic, I have this question for you: Should I take my tank apart, take out the eco and like the test that we conducted, clean the substrate and add vinegar to it in order to stabilize it? I know that this sounds crazy, but I’m desperate. Of course, I will rinse the gravel a million times just to make sure that there is no vinegar left over.

I just need to know if this is a good idea. I don’t mind starting the tank over again. I still have my 20 gallon long tank where I can keep my fish and plants while I make changes. I just want my tank to be normal again.

Please advise. Thank you so much.

Lissette

P.S. I still have the bottle with the handful of gravel that was tested with vinegar and the Ph is still 6.6.

[Kasakato]

What are the ammoina, nitirite, and nitrate levles?

[RTR]

I'm sorry, but ph 7.6, KH 12 and GH near that is not brackish conditions. Almost every plant and fish in the hobby will adapt to that without issues. You cannot breed blackwater fish in that, but you certainly can support them perfectly well.

[Aquabum]

Kasakato,

The ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, and nitrate is 5.

RTR, according to the test kit that I have (Aqua. Pharm), it says that it's brackish water.

Oh, by the way, did I mention that my tank stinks like hell. It's been smelling like that for the past several weeks. I've tried to ignore it, but it's impossible. It's smells like something chemical was dumped in there. I hate putting my hand in there. It must be the gravel. Nobody messes with my tank but me. My 20 gallon NEVER smelled that way. There's something wrong. I know it. Then again, maybe I'm going out of my mind.

Thanks for your replies.

Lissette

[ImALittleFishy]

Does it smell like rotten eggs?

My KH and GH are much higher than yours(around 19-22 actually) and I do not have any deaths, smell or problems. Plants are growing well and fish are good. I have two Oto's who have been in there since November. Not saying it is not the Eco complete, but you may want to look into other things before you tear it down.

[happychem]

Can you describe the smell a little more descriptively? I've smelt a lot of things I'd describe as "chemical". Whether the substrate is to blame for this is another matter, doesn't sound like a substrate issue, unless it's rotten eggs, then it's anoxic pockets.

I'm surprised that the substrate is still raising KH/pH, I would have expected it to have run through it's carbonate contamination by now. Taking it all apart is a huge job, but sometimes a fresh start is just what the doctor ordered. It's really up to you it you want to undertake that endeavour.

RTR is right though, the pH, KH and GH are all perfectly acceptable. If they're stable, then there shouldn't be any problem, I suspect that the recent deaths are more symptomatic of the previous instability. You are injecting CO2, correct? You've only got about 9ppm CO2 in your water right now.

In either case:
Increase your water change frequency to 30% twice weekly (a total of 50%) That should help stabilize the system at a much lower plateau and to run through any contaminants much faster.

[djlen]

Lissette, take a sample of your tap water and sit it out for 6 hours or so and test it for kH and gH. While you're at it, check pH and for N and P as well.
There is no sense in pulling everything apart until you've ruled everything else out.

BTW, Oto's should be introduced in small schools. They like each other's company.

Len

[Aquabum]

Thank you guys. I appreciate your replies.

ImALittleFishy, No it doesn't smell like rotten eggs. I can't accurately describe it. It's unlike anything I've encountered. But I guess if it doesn't smell like rotten eggs, it shouldn't be a problem, huh?

Happychem, Yes, I'm injecting DIY Co2 w/ 2 2 litre bottles. After reading these posts, I decided to look into my tank and try to get a handle on the smell. For some reason, it's not as strong as it was yesterday and before that (it still annoys me). I'm hoping that something is actually changing here. I will do 2 water changes per week as you suggested and see if that works out. It's certainly better than tearing down the tank and adding vinegar to the eco (God, what was I thinking?). You guys must think I'm Nuts. I guess the test kit is wrong when it said it was brackish water.

Len, I know your right about the oto. Through my fustration, I didn't immediately realize that I did something wrong. Also, I have in the past placed my tap water out overnight. The ph from my tap continues to be 6.6 and the kh has been 0. I checked the Gh last night and it was 3, Nitrate is at 5. The only thing out of whack is the Po4. Out of the tap it's 3. But the plants quickly use this up before the end of the week. I checked it last night as well and it was non-existent.

From what I've gathered (then again, I'm no expert), my tap water parameters seem fine. That's why I thought that the eco was the culprit.

I'm sorry that I've bothered you guys with this. It's just that I've never dealt with this kind of problem before and it's driving me mad.

Again, I thank everyone for taking the time in helping me out. ;)

[happychem]

There's no need to apologize, it's easy to freak out when the fish start dieing and things go out of whack and won't come back.

Tearing the whole tank down and rinsing the substrate with vinegar would handily deal with the carbonate contaminant in the Eco-Complete, but since the params. you listed are fine for fish, it is a lot of work to solve a problem that may be secondary.

Establish a routine of twice weekly water changes and see how things stable out. Not too sure about the smell, but are any fish AWOL/MIA? If KH continues to climb and becomes a concern, then you can start looking into something more drastic. Yes, it would be nice if your substrate wasn't altering the water chem, but if it wasn't you'd just end up putting crushed coral in your filter anyway.

[Aquabum]

Thanks happychem.

I will certainly do as you suggest regarding water changes. I will do one tonight and on Saturday and I'll keep this schedule to see if everything balances itself out. When it does, you'll be the first to know, and that's a promise. :bowing:

I'm hoping that my friend, Ebang reads this post. She too was very upset and worried about her tank.

Lissette :)

[RTR]

Brackish water is a mixture of FW and SW, but it is measured by density (by hydrometer), or by salinity (by refractomer). It is not properly or accurately measured by KH or GH or a combination of them, If AP so states, they are wrong.

[Aquabum]

RTR, thank you for clearing that up.

It does say it in their booklet, which is why I thought that they were correct. You can imagine why I panicked. It says that a Gh of 11 and over is brackish, which is ideal for goldfish, mollies, etc..

I'm just glad that it's not true.

Lissette :)

[ImALittleFishy]

I think they just mean the ideal conditions, ideal water hardness levels, is what is stated above the chart. Maybe it is easier for the mixture when the GH and KH are high? Meaning that it would be ideal to have a brackish tank. Not so much that it is brackish, they should re-word that. I could see someone thinking they had brackish water and buying brackish fish for it :( .