View Full Version : Problems with an established tank.
kcmo lawman
05-04-2005, 8:58 PM
I have a 55g FOWLR tank that has already been through it's cycle. It cycled about 2 to 3 months ago. Everything was fine until about 3 weeks ago. Suddenly my ph dropped to about 6.8 and my anenome died, my 3 starfish died, and my 3 hermit crabs also died. I was doing water changes weekly. I was getting my water from my lfs and it was premixed. I still do a 5-10% water change weekly, I just mix the water myself. I have approx. 65-70lbs of live rock in the tank and a light fish load. I have a prickly leatherback (filefish), a yellow tailed blue damsel, a banana wrasse, a scooter blenny, and a coral beauty angelfish. There is nothing else in the tank. My cleaner shrimp died along with the rest of my tankmates. I know I need to get a cleanup crew in the tank once again and plan on doing that here soon. My problem now is my water is murky and I have done 2 water changes in 2 days now. My ammonia is starting to rise, as is my nitrates. My nitrites are at 0 and my ph is at 8.2. I have a skimmer running and it is pulling a little nasty stuff out of the water and I also have 3 powerheads running as well. I have an coralife 4x65watt pc light setup as well. As of right now my ammonia is at 1ppm from 0ppm and my nitrates are at 20ppm also up from 0ppm. :mad2: I have looked for anything that is dead and can not find anything so I have no idea what is going on with my tank. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Bradd
OrionGirl
05-04-2005, 9:17 PM
Are there any inverts in the tank that survived--pods or snails? I'd worry that the source water somehow was contaminated with copper. Copper will quickly kill inverts, and in even low levels can be lethal to the beneficial bacteria in your tank, explaining the rising ammonia levels. You can get copper test kits, but they often are not very accurate. I'd also contact the LFS you purchased the pre-mixed water from to see if they are aware of problems others may have experienced.
kcmo lawman
05-04-2005, 9:20 PM
Are there any inverts in the tank that survived--pods or snails? I'd worry that the source water somehow was contaminated with copper. Copper will quickly kill inverts, and in even low levels can be lethal to the beneficial bacteria in your tank, explaining the rising ammonia levels. You can get copper test kits, but they often are not very accurate. I'd also contact the LFS you purchased the pre-mixed water from to see if they are aware of problems others may have experienced.
No, none of the inverts survived at all. I do believe there are still some pods left in the tank though. I admit I used to see a lot more of the pods, but not since all of this has happend. Also, it appears that my coraline has stopped spreading on my liverock. Some of the corals that were on the live rock still seem to be alive, but it is kind of hard to tell right now. I have contacted the lfs and he isn't aware of anyone else having any troubles. Could it be that I might not be using the same salt mix that he was using for my water changes?
Thanks for the reply,
Bradd
OrionGirl
05-04-2005, 9:35 PM
Can't answer the last question, but I would be pretty suspicious that the problem relates to the premix. Maybe something got in the container you use to bring it home? Anyone who visited the tank and maybe dropped in a penny? The fact that the fish aren't dying off is troubling, and points to copper, IMO.
kcmo lawman
05-04-2005, 9:39 PM
That is kind of what I was thinking. There has been nobody even near the top of the tank except me....this was made clear from the start. That way if anything happend I would know who exactley to blame. As far as the containers are concerned I have been using the same ones from day one. I don't know what else to think or try. I am just worried that whatever it is has made my tank unfit for anything except for fish. I guess as long as my water clears up and my fish are safe, happy, and healthy I won't complain too much.
Thanks for the reply,
Bradd
FloridaBoy
05-05-2005, 1:26 AM
Hmmm, okay here's my 2 cents...
Checking your previous posts, I see you removed the bio wheels in your HOB filter about 30 days ago. I also see your skimmer performance is spotty. And you only have 20 lbs of LR in this 55 gal system. IMO, you may have created a recipe for trouble; not disaster mind you, but trouble.
IMO, with moderate to robust fish loads, no serious biofilter and only nominal amounts of live rock, you will need a kick*ss skimmer, not a spotty or weak performer that sorta works. It may be that you are now seeing the early signs of a pending system crash; your live sand may have died/become an anaerobic mess which could lead to serious problems; any ammonia can be a deadly sign. I don't want to be too negative; only make sure you understand the worse case scenario so you can avoid it. Forget about nitrates for now; nitrates are not fish killers. Seek to establish a reliable, stable bio filter for your fish; many options out there; for now it could be as simple and economical as replacing the wheels, seeded with some bacterial slime from a healthy tank, try adding a Polyfilter to remove any metals, and if careful adjustments do not produce daily dark skimmate, return the Prizm for another skimmer, maybe the Euroreef line. Don't be discouraged; you do not need a biology degree or spend a fortune to keep marine fish; as teenager I kept them healthy and growing for years armed with only undergravel filters. Your patience will lead to success.
kcmo lawman
05-05-2005, 7:05 AM
The HOB has been totally out of the tank for a while now. When I checked the tank this morning I did notice some pods swimming around and the water appeared to be a little clearer. This has made me feel a little better. My skimmer is producing foam and some darker water in the collection cup, but it isn't REALLY thick. As far as the live rock, I have added to it so I am now around 50-60lbs so far and still going. At this point would it be a bad idea to add more live rock until things get cleared up?
Thanks for the help,
Bradd
No add away as long as it's curred from a trusted source. It sounds like copper to me to fwiw. I wonder if the lfs got the water out a q.t. tank or something ?
kcmo lawman
05-06-2005, 7:42 AM
Not too sure about the water from the lfs, but this morning the tank is ALMOST crystal clear and my skimmer now has thick, dark gunk in it instead of the discolored water that it usually has. All of my fish seem to be doing ok as well. I am still keeping an eye on all of the water levels and doing 10% water changes as well.
I will keep you all posted. Thanks for all of the help and advice,
Bradd
wastememphis
05-11-2005, 9:39 AM
If you want some extra filtration put the hang on filter back on the tank, you can use it only as circulation or put a bag of carbon in there. it will filter off the top of the water and make your tank very clear.
I'm not too sure what could make a PH drop from 8.2-6.8 but when mine droped to 7.6 it was becuase I didn't have enough things to sift around my sand bed, my clown kicked up a pocket of pure garbage and thats all that needed to happen. I had to clean all my sand (removing all the inhabitance and rock), and I put more circulation in the tank/sifters. I dont know if thats a possibility for you, this happened around the 1year mark on mine, so you might not have that much of a build up in your sand. What are your readings at for Ph, N02 and N03 now?
(not to "nit pik" but an established tank isn't one that has been set up for 4months)
kcmo lawman
05-11-2005, 4:57 PM
My ammonia is still at 1ppm, but my nitrates have dropped to 5ppm and my nitrites are at 0. My ph is at about 8.2 now.
I got a suprise when I woke up this morning. It seems that one of my blue legged hermits has survived all of this and is doing fine. I found him chugging along the sand bed this morning. I have noticed a couple more pods, but not many. Would it be safe to add more live rock at this point or should I wait for a little while longer?
Thanks for all the help,
Bradd
If it's curred add away. I'd also add some more clean up crew fwiw they'll help eat what ever it is that you aren't finding in the tank. I'd suspect that you have a dead critter somewhere that you can't see that may have been what nuked your tank man. I'd do water changes to keep ammonia below .5 ppm it won't be toxic nearly as fast at that level.
hth
good luck
chris
wattsd
05-13-2005, 12:32 PM
Not sure how true this is but I have heard that once copper gets into a tank it is nearly impossible to get it out. So if you decide to add another invert make it small and cheap. If it lives...you might be in the clear. Though I wouldn't have guessed ANY inverts would have survived if it was a copper problem and you had some hermits make it. I am a newbie at this so take what I say with a grain of salt.
Good luck, I hope everything turns out ok.