View Full Version : bettas in vases?
Lauren
05-06-2005, 11:09 AM
I've seen this before, and I wanted to know if it was humane, because it looks awesome. There is a large vase filled with water with a plant inside that doesn't need soil. The roots are in the water, benifitting from the fish's waste, acting a bit like a filter, and the leaves are above. The betta swims around between the roots. They seem to have at a bit of water in there, the vases can be quite big. But is it safe for them?
well,
1) no filtration (bad for fish)
2) fluctuating temperatures (bad for fish)
3)not enough surface area for oxygen (bad for fish)
4) how do you feed it?
5)what do you do with the drippy,bare rooted plant while you change the water and remove waste from the tank? (which you would need to do Often,see #1)
It seems to me, that water that would be yummy and full of nutrients for the plant would be nasty, and IMO inhumane for the fish.
You will find a lot of info and strong oppinions on this if you search the forums for betta vases I think.
glad you asked before you bought
ergo sum
05-06-2005, 12:05 PM
It can be done. Stick an air tube in a piece of sponge, just make some kind of filter. I think the size of the vase needed is hard to find. A new 10g tank is really cheaper.
Just treat the whole thing as if it is any other fish tank. Cycle it, test it, lots of water changes etc.
I did this for a whole summer once and evaporation was the biggest problem. It is dry here. I grew the whole thing in a south facing window which was fine until the sun got lower in Nov. Then I had an algae explosion.
Lauren
05-06-2005, 12:30 PM
well,
1) no filtration (bad for fish)
2) fluctuating temperatures (bad for fish)
3)not enough surface area for oxygen (bad for fish)
4) how do you feed it?
5)what do you do with the drippy,bare rooted plant while you change the water and remove waste from the tank? (which you would need to do Often,see #1)
It seems to me, that water that would be yummy and full of nutrients for the plant would be nasty, and IMO inhumane for the fish.
You will find a lot of info and strong oppinions on this if you search the forums for betta vases I think.
glad you asked before you bought
My general devil advocate responses:
1. the roots will act as a filter, and other filtration can be applied
2. not necessarily. In a home with a relatively stable temp it could be okay.
3. sponge filter can put air into the water, and take care of #1
4. drop betta pellets in once a week
5. tubing between roots, fill it up over the roots. The roots will actually help to displace the water when filling up the water, creating less turbulation.
OrionGirl
05-06-2005, 1:21 PM
My general devil advocate responses:
1. the roots will act as a filter, and other filtration can be applied
2. not necessarily. In a home with a relatively stable temp it could be okay.
3. sponge filter can put air into the water, and take care of #1
4. drop betta pellets in once a week
5. tubing between roots, fill it up over the roots. The roots will actually help to displace the water when filling up the water, creating less turbulation.
1. Sort of. They can be setup to be okay, though still not ideal. Plants use ammonia, but other wastes will build up, requiring frequent water changes.
2. Yep, though still maybe on the cool side. Bettas prefer upper 70's--much warmer than I'd like my house. In cooler water, bettas are prone to fin rot and bacterial infections.
3. Not a big deal, though adding the filtration is a good plan. There must be a large area of open water that the betta can get to easily. Bettas and other labyrinth fish can actually suffocate if access to the surface is limited--oxygen levels in the water aren't sufficient. They must get to the surface to breath.
4. More than weekly. Bettas are carnivores, but I still prefer to feed them daily to every other day--weekly just wouldn't cut it.
5. The plant can simply be set aside during water changes--the most commonly used plants are sturdy enough to be fine laying on their side for a few minutes. This is preferably to leaving the plant in place, since that will limit your ability to clean the substrate of waste and uneaten food.
FWIW, I think these can be a nice setup, but more maintenance than I will deliberately give myself for one fish. A 5 or 10 gallon tank will be cheaper in the long run, simply because it will take less work to keep stable.
Raskolnikov
05-06-2005, 1:33 PM
Have you considered setting up an uncovered 10g tank w/ some plants growing hydroponically? You'll have room for a heater and any form of filtration that you might want, plus the look of the lush plants growing out of the top of your tank while leaving sufficient open space for the betta to breath.
Lauren
05-06-2005, 3:17 PM
I'm just sort of bored with tanks now. I have a betta in a 5 gallon square tank by my computer, which I'm fine with, but I wanted to try something a little more interesting elsewhere in the house.
Rosemary
05-06-2005, 3:33 PM
To me, a small container like a vase is more boring than a tank because the betta can't do a whole heck of a lot, he usually ends up just sitting there (in the set-ups I've seen).
Ramirezi
05-06-2005, 4:03 PM
yeah, i mean theres no room for any decor. no room for a cave for the betta to hide in, no room for any sort of plants or rocks or anything really. just a betta sitting in a glass vase with some gravel at the bottom. sounds pretty boring to me. my mom was given a betta vase as a gift. poor thing just sat there and stared at you. it was miserable. i rescued him and put him into a tank with my Ryukin who was all alone. I had 2 Ryukins, but one died of dropsy. now the betta hangs out with Calico. Dummy is much happier now.
if you want something interesting....check out the shell dwelling cichlids, here's a link www.shelldwellers.com
they sounded pretty interesting to me. i was going to set up a 7 gal betta tank at work...now i'm thinking of setting it up for a pair of shell dwellers. with lots of shells for them to hide and breed in and a black sand substrate. maybe some java ferns and some cool looking rocks. these guys work all day moving sand grain by grain, they create hills and valleys in the substrate and bury the shells to their liking. they're constantly moving. and the tank would look different every day.
Ok, That's getting there... added filtration, siphon cleaning etc.... ( u really can't rely in the plant)
I'm still sold on heaters, And certainly more frequent feeding/ cleaning.
I can understand the appeal of the look, myself.
If it were me, Id stay on the lookout for a slightly larger "cool" clear container. Certainly one with more surface area. and make a DIY arrangement for plants on top, that leave more free surface space..
Aristotle
05-06-2005, 5:50 PM
My mother got one of those vases with a beautiful red betta. The plant didn't look so good after a few weeks, so she took it out and put black opalescent glass marbles in the bottom of the vase. My father does a water change, I'm not sure of the specifics but I assume it is a 25% water change, every week. I'm not sure how frequently he cleans the marbles. I should ask him about that.
She's had that betta for a long time now. He swims around a little, and looks very healthy. If you sit near the vase he flares and shows off for you for a few minutes.
FisheyLisa
05-06-2005, 6:32 PM
I had one. it was a pain and I wasn't even taking care of it as if it was a fish tank...like no testing etc. Just water changes and feeding the betta. It looked cool, the betta swam in the roots a little, and was probably mildly content...compared to the cupI bought him in. The roots got dirty, you gotta trim them back.
Hindsight, I have a betta in a community 15g, planted with hiding places etc. It seems like a more humane set-up. I have heard the analogy keeping bettas in tiny, under 1/2 gallon containers is like putting you in a closet, I'd say the vase is like locking you in a room of your house. You'll survive, but is it the best option?
Then again, do fish have feelings or long for a bigger pad?
Lisa
I say if you're interested in setting up something like that go ahead. But I'm wondering if instead of the lily type plant on top with only the roots in the water...how bout finding a plant that could be planted underwater and also continue growing out of the water...make sure the opening at the top is big enough to be able to put your hand in the vase to clean it out when needed.
You could do regular water changes easy with a syphon tube and if you can get your hand in there to wipe the sides down as needed, you could actually keep it pretty clean. I've seen some really large glass jars/vases that hold as much as 5-10 gallons. You could get a floor size one and your betta would have lots of room to swim around and you could hide a little sponge filter in there on the bottom. Get the right setup and they blend in rather well.
Thinking about it, if you really got into it you could do a rather nice setup that is different than your average "square" type tank.
Just keep the fish's needs in mind when planning it out....for betta, temps in the mid to upper 70's, nice clean water, the ability to get to the surface for air and room to swim.....am I missing anything ??.....oh, yeah.....and have fun and share a pic of your setup when it's complete....so we can all add our 2cents worth of comments and complaints....lol....! ;)
lousybreed
05-07-2005, 10:29 AM
a plant on top will rip any nutrients out of the water in no time if the plant is getting proper lighting. I have used the "betta plant" that is used on top of these contraptions for my own vegatative filter and I have no measurable ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. Not enought oxygen?????????? Does everyone remember where these fish come from??????? Oxygen deficient swamps and rice patties, ditches and canals......I think that the only thing that i see as bad is the temp, you will need to heat it so the water is at least 76 degrees
They do need to get to the top for a breath of air.....they have laboryth organs which help them get oxygen...because they live in oxygen depleted water in thier natural habitat...they need to get to the surface to breath. You cannot plug up the top of the vase with a plant. I have seen these plastic type plugs that the plant sits in used in these betta vases...NOT GOOD !
You can do a nice vase setup with bettas if you keep in mind thier needs when planning it out. Don't think you don't have to do water changes or that you don't have to feed the fish....some instructions will tell you these things and it is false. Bettas do NOT eat the roots of the plants and you have do water changes and keep the vase clean. Even heavily planted aquariums need water changes at least once a month if for nothing else but to replace the minerals and nutrients that the plants use up.
Be creative and consider the fish and you can have quite a nice conversation piece to share with your visitors.
Right. What you sed EMG
:D
butterflylove
05-07-2005, 5:22 PM
at the front desk we had the big vase, with the plants and roots with a crown betta in it. when THEY did water changes and cleaned it, they just dumped out all of the water, and clean the rocks. the betta lived for years like that, until one day they asked a new girl to clean it, and she filled the water all the way up to the plastic part that holds the plants,therefore sufficating the poor thing.
i think its a good idea to have one, if you know what your doing.
lousybreed
05-07-2005, 5:55 PM
They do need to get to the top for a breath of air.....they have laboryth organs which help them get oxygen...because they live in oxygen depleted water in thier natural habitat...they need to get to the surface to breath. You cannot plug up the top of the vase with a plant. I have seen these plastic type plugs that the plant sits in used in these betta vases...NOT GOOD !
You can do a nice vase setup with bettas if you keep in mind thier needs when planning it out. Don't think you don't have to do water changes or that you don't have to feed the fish....some instructions will tell you these things and it is false. Bettas do NOT eat the roots of the plants and you have do water changes and keep the vase clean. Even heavily planted aquariums need water changes at least once a month if for nothing else but to replace the minerals and nutrients that the plants use up.
Be creative and consider the fish and you can have quite a nice conversation piece to share with your visitors.
yes I forgot to mention that they MUST have access to the water surface