Another Lighting Question?

P

PikeLee

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Dec 19, 2002
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I got a situation for you guys. And any advice will help out. I have a 30g tank, mostly plants (although I will be adding more fish in). What I have in the tank is below:

Plants:
Anubias Coffee.
Green Hygro
Sunset Hygro
Java Fern
Wisteria
Water Sprite
Red Crypt Wendt.
Melon sword
(Would eventually like to add some grassy plants in the foreground)

Fish/inverts:
2 Ottos (will soon be getting 5 more)
5 Black Neons
1 Singapore Wood Shrimp
(Will be Adding about 7 Rummy Nose)

Lighting:
1 36inch 20Watt Bulb (The Bulb it came with)
2 20 inch 15 Watt Bulbs (From my Ten Gallons, also with the Bulbs that it came with)
TOTAL LIGHT: 50Watt for a 30 Gallon Tank = 1.7 W/g

Conditions:
5 GH
7 PH
81 Degrees F.
0 Nitrites & Ammonia

I was about to dish out the money for the All Glass Power Compact light Strip (110W). I found the Coralife 2 x 96W would have been over doing it. In any case, the bulbs that come with the 110w are the GE® 9325° Kelvin. But after reading various sites on the web, I noticed that the Bulbs that it comes with will not be of any use for me since I need somewhere between 5000-6700 Kelvin. The Hood is about $100 at Big Als, plus another $60 for the correct Bulbs for a total of $160.

My plants aren't doing so well. The Sunset Hyrgro doesn't have the pinkish it did before. The only thing that seems to be doing well is the anubias and the Crypt.

I don't mind spending the money, but if I can do without it, I wouldn't mind saving some bucks. Soooo, finally, my question is, Do you think I can get away with buying a couple of 6700 Kelvin Bulbs for the Lighting I currently have to save a couple of bucks (I'm hoping this is the problem I have with my lighting), or should I just get the Power Compact and the new replacement bulbs with the right Kelvin at Big Als?

I was also thinking of adding some CO2 but didn't. Since I had a good amount of fish in there, I didn't want to risk harming the fish at all.
 
You could retrofit the 36" fixture with a 96w or 2x36w CF from AHSupply for about a $100 bucks for the kit and the bulb(s) (maybe another $10 for shipping). I have the 2x36 over my 30 and sort of wish I'd gotten the 96.

At the end of the day I think you may find the problem is with your ferts (macro & micro) or insufficient CO2. I was also getting pale growth and am starting to see improvements from adding Flourish, Flourish Iron, Excel (for CO2) and stump remover (KNO3). Still wrestling with the nutrients.
 
I'm going to take a look at my 36" Fixture and see what I can do. I'm not too much of a handy person (Especially when it comes to electrics). But if it seems like something I can work on, I'm gonna go for it.

I'm definitly going to get some Flourish Excel. I hear that stuff works really well. Do you use the Flourish Products in conjuction with each other?

I guess replacing the bulbs on my current fixtures with the 6700 Kelving bulbs wouldn't be enough, judging by what you said about going to ahsupply.

Was it fairly simple assembling everything from them? Also, is there product that much better with their reflection rate?

Thanks a bunch.

Cheers.
 
I just have the one experience with CF so I don't know what other reflectors are like. I'm planning on replacing the 15w(?) NO in my hand me down 10g with a 36w retrofitted into the striplight. I built a canopy for the 30g. I saw a lamp (at hellolights, I think) that had a flat reflector that you could snip into sections. I couldn't see that being any where near as efficient. I can't really look directly at the 36s when they are in the reflectors. The wiring is extremely simple: twist a few wires together using the wire nuts (supplied), flip switch. I put mine on a timer.

Seachem makes a whole line of products under the Flourish brand, they do different things. Excel is a carbon supplement -- some sort of proprietary sugar thing, don't really understand the chemistry. Flourish provides trace nutrients (whole big list on the bottle). Flourish Iron is, um, an Iron supplement. They also just started a macronutrient line, Potassium, Phosphates, Nitrogen (I get the impression this may have been out earlier overseas and was recently introduced here).

There are DIY macronutrients around, certain brands of stump remover (like Spectracide) are mostly KNO3, or nitrate and potassium. Nu-Salt and other salt replacements are mostly potassium, and Fleet Enemas are used for dosing phosphates. Cheaper if you want to deal with calculating doses and what not. Fishfood is also a phosphate source (and fish are a nitrate source). There is a low-tech philosophy that espouses letting the fish and fishfood do their own thing (I think that WetMan, for instance, only doses NuSalt). Others use more fertilizer additives.

The three components of plant growth -- light, nutrients, and CO2 -- need to be kept in balance with each other. You'll sometimes see recommendations that you "need" CO2 after you cross the 2wpg thresold into moderate light, its not as important in low light tanks. This is because the plants use these things up: if the plant has a lot of light and wants to grow it needs a certain amount of CO2 to build tissue and make sugars. Likewise the other nutrients. Each component limits the others. Having too much of one and not enough of the others will limit growth and invite algae.

1.7 wpg isn't huge light, but its not really that low. I'd look into nutrients first as a possible cause of plants "not doing so well". I like my lights and will definitely get them again for the inevitable next tank, but I got less than satisfactory results until I started to get into the nutrients. For instance my ambulia has always grown riotously, but I was getting reddish tips until I started adding nitrates. My rotala indica grew slowly and was pale until I started the nitrates and Iron. After just a week the rotala is fuller and redder, the ambulia is green. They can be a little complicated and I'm still figuring them out (I'm likewise a planted newb), but you could get a pretty good regimen going for much less moolah than new lamps.

If you do a search for anything like "nitrate", "fertilizer", "algae", "light", and cross it with PlantBrain you'll find some interesting threads. Here's a link to one of his articles on ferts. He can move a little fast, but he answers questions in here regularly if you need something clarified.

HTH
 
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Lighting...
If you want to save some money, I'd go to www.ahsupply.com and order a 2x36watt kit from them. This is assuming you want a highlight setup. With highlight setup, you _must_ inject CO2. Flourish Excel will not cut it.

Since you said you don't mind spending money, here's what I suggest:

Get a 2x36watt setup from ahsupply. You can even order a canopy from them if you don't want to make your own. The kits are very easy to put together, I'm all thumbs when it comes to wiring, and I managed to get it working without a problem.
Get a pressurized CO2 system and a good reactor. If you want more info on this, just ask.

IMHO, go CO2 first. Then once you are confident with the CO2, you can get more lighting. Many people assume that more light = more growth. This assumption usually leads to algae blooms.

In a highlight system, you want to keep your nitrate levels at 5-10ppm at all times. Bi-daily dosing of trace elements, and weekly dosing of potassium are also needed after 40-50% water changes. Phosphates are also dosed, if your tap water doesn't provide enough phosphates. If you want more info on where to find this stuff, once again, just ask.

Your current tank is pretty lightly stocked, and it seems (from what I've read) that your tank is moderately/heavily planted. Test your nitrate levels, if they are zero, try raising them a little. Also remember to dose a bit of trace. Although not too much, as your tank isn't growing as fast a highlight system.

Flourish Excel is good for a carbon source, but it generally only works for smaller tanks... once you hit tanks in the 30 range and up, it gets too expensive to keep up with dosing. Pressurized CO2 will win out in the long run.

HTH
-Richer
 
Wow. Thanks a lot for all the information. It’s a bit overwhelming, but I’m going to work at it. I thought things were going to be somewhat simple by just getting some plants and some lights, and throwing in some extra food or fertilizers here and there, but it can get a bit more involved.

I already ordered some Flourish Excel & Flourish Iron so that’s on its way. I was really hoping that I just needed to change the bulbs with the right Kelvin Scale, but since I want to put some plants that need more light, I figure I’ll get one of the fixtures from AHSupply.

Well, this is what I’ve come up with so far…I’m going to get the 1 x 96 light from AH. The difference between that and the 2 x 36 light is only a couple of bucks. I might as well go for the more lighting. Especially if I’m going to go for some grass like plant in the foreground. A friend of mine mentioned getting the 2 x96 (my friend isn’t Tim “The Tool Man” Taylor). But I thought that would be overkill and would have to work more on the CO2.

I’m going to try and retrofit it. If that doesn’t work nice and neat and I don’t think I’m handy enough to build my own after getting the designs, I’ll just order the fixed enclosures that they sell.

I’m going to read a bit more on the DIY Ferts. and all. I’m still have to break out of the expensive habit of getting aquarium products, so I’m going to approach that with caution.

I thought my tank was crowded already with the tank occupants. When I had my Dwarf Pikes in there, I noticed they were breathing just a bit heavy (I was thinking lack of Oxygen). I put them in a different tank with an airstone and they are looking much better. That’s basically why I didn’t house that tank up with more fish than I planned.

So, while I’m waiting for all the stuff to come in, I’m going to try a DIY CO2 set up (wish me luck). I found a site somewhere with some formulas on how to do it, so I’ll see what happens. That reminds me, I have to get a check valve for that. I hear I can just run the airline into the uptake of my Whisper Power filter.

BTW, What do you think of that CO2 thing from Hagen. I hear it works well? I might have to hit up WetMan for some “Low tech” info. I don’t mind buying all these things to get the tank running and the plants looking they way they should, but in the long run it’s going to eat into my pockets, Especially with all the other things in this Hobby (I didn’t even mess with the Corals yet).

Do either of your guys have a preference between the 6700K and the 5000K? I read that they do the same in terms of growth, but they just give of a different appearance in the tank.

OMT, I got lost when you guys mentioned the Macro, Micro, and trace. I’ll have to read up more on that.

Cheers.
 
Good idea, reading is the best thing you can do. After that, ask questions to help clarify things you might not quite understand.

As per your question about Hagen's CO2 system, I haven't heard bad things about it. That system is essentially a tuned up DIY CO2 system. The concept is more or less the same. If you can afford it, by all means go for it and see if it works for your tank. I believe that after you are done the packs that come with the system, you can mix your own CO2 recipi into that generator. My friend bought me one for my birthday... (I've told them a million times not to buy me fish stuff, but noooooo....!) haven't opened it yet, but my 20 gallon bowfront is going to be planted soon, so I'll see what happens.

HTH
-Richer
 
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