Rams bred into pH 8.5 !!!!????

[Aderynglas]

For the last month I've had my eye on a tank of rams at a lfs. They aren't the best shop imo but they are a good size and price.

I rang the shop and spoke to the manager who informed me that they will be fine in my tank because they are v hardy as they have been bred "up north" in a ph of 8.5 !!!! :eek: He then went on to say that he has been keeping them at 7.5 and that my ph 6.8 isn't much different !!!

I am finding this information very hard to believe - I would have thought rams wouldn't survive for long at 8.5 let alone breed.

I'm not sure which I'm most amazed at

1. The thought of Rams in water that hard

or

2. The depths of ignorance of some lfs staff, to quote
" there's only one point difference between 8.5 and 7.5 and your water is just a little bit less"

So guys, am I worrying about nowt or should I stay clear and wait till I get to my usual shop and hope they one day have in a male for my female ??

[Dwarfnut]

I think you should go rescue those Rams! They are one of my favorite dwarfs, so hurry before they die!

And no, I don't believe that they bred in water with ph of 8.5... or even 7.5 as mine will not even think about it until it's below 7.0!
'course, mine were wild caught, so if they were bred and rasied in captiviy, then MAYBE they'd breed in water about ph of 7, but I wouldn't hold my breath!

Good luck,
Bill C.

[VoodooChild]

Are they blues or Bolivians? They aren't going to breed either way, but the Bolivians will have a much better chance of surving a pH that high than the blues, although that'll still take a very hard toll on them. By all means, buy them and rescue them.

[Ronne]

I have my Bolivian Rams in a tank at pH 7.4. They are very healthy and have just had their first batch of fry hatch (I've only had the pair for 2 weeks). It seems that any species I put in the tank breeds within 2 weeks!

[Aderynglas]

The Rams I'm talking about are Microgeophagus Ramirezii and its hard to tell if they're golden Rams or blue because they are fairly stressed by the three powerheads in the tank (think washing machine) and look quite pale at the moment, but they do have black on them.

I just wish i could rescue all of them, no fish should be regarded as expendable but this seems to be the attitude at this shop. I would have thought that in the long run it wouild be cheaper to care for the fish properly rather than lose valuable stock all the time. Sigh

[Faramir]

I find it very hard to believe! I've been sold this sort of line by shops before, but I remain sceptical.

What they might mean is that the fry have been acclimated to higher pHs. I doubt the eggs would ever hatch in hard water.

Evolution is a powerful thing, mind. I'm sure it could be done, but you'd need to gradually increase pH over a number of generations. Angel fish used to be buggers for needing soft acid water, but I remember a shop in Bedford (Chiltern hills - think water that's percolated through 800' of chalk) breeding them in tap water a few years ago.

[VoodooChild]

All of the rams I've seen there is a definate difference between the gold rams and the blues. The golds are almost white without the pink eyes.

[Aderynglas]

Well - I did it, went out and bought a blue Ram male (I hope) it was the biggest and bolshiest in the shop.

As the fish had been in the shop tank for a month I let him float in a small tank while I acclimatized him slowly for a few hours. He coloured up straight away and when he was responding to the female I let him swim out and she came to meet him!! these fish are soooooo sweet :) I just hope that he lives, I've read some really sad posts about Rams.