CO2 help please.

[Wulfy]

Gday,

I am buying my 1st CO2 system and need some independant help.
The lfs is very helpful but they have a vested interest.

After speaking to 2 good lfs I am pretty sure
that DUPLA is the way to go. Convince my otherwise.

I only have an 80L but I want to have it set up just so
and I want to use the CO2 gear to maintain my PH at just above 6 for my 2 Discus to be.

As far as I understand this is what a CO2 basic system
compromises of:

Bottle.
Regulator.
Gauge.
Reactor.
Bubble counter (this is essential in the base kit, right?)
CO2 indicator (in the aquarium).
Tubing.

Then you can progress to;
Magnetic Valve for timer control

Then you can progress to;
Electronic PH meter/controller combo for dynamic injection.

Have I missed anything?
The plan is to go in 3 steps to minimise the hip pocket hurt.

It would seem that if you buy DUPLA bits separately
they cost much more than a kit.
So I am looking at getting DUPLA S 750 kit with
Aluminium bottle (I dont like steel since they can explode).

But what about the magnetic valve and the controller.
They seem independant enough so that I could
buy them cheaper on the net.

Anyone has any suggestions, pitfalls etc how
to go about getting a good CO2 kit?

[Dabbler II]

I dont like steel since they can explode).

All pressure bottles are certified neather will explode

I peiced my co2 system together myself

The regulator I got from a welding supply store and I also bought the bottle from there ($70.00 Cdn for the regulator and $130.00 for the 20lb Bottle)
The mag valve I bought from a Industrial Valve supply store for $69.00
the bubble counter I got from Big Al's $45.00 and the timer i got from the LHS
Thats $315.00 cdn with a full bottle of co2 :D

If I was going to buy from the LFS it would be $300+ Without the bottle :(
So Check aroud you could save some cash
:)

[djlen]

Does it include a needle valve?
Len

[Dabbler II]

oops forgot that $6.00 at home depot

[Wulfy]

Originally posted by Dabbler II


All pressure bottles are certified neather will explode


I am aware of that. But then, the Colombia was certified to enter the atmosphere.
Accidents do happen. And if my CO2 bottle decides
to go I would rather it tear and spill the gas like an Aluminum bottle would rather than explode and fragment the entire ground floor like a steel bottle would.


Big Al's ?
Sorry whats that. A hardware store? A supermarket?
Home Depot I take it is a hardware store?

Could you please post the specs of the fixtures?
Not very detailed, just the diameter and preassure
rating if possible so that when I walk into the
store I dont sound like a complete ignoramus.

Thanks Dabbler for you handy tips.

[clayt101]

www.bigalsonline.com

[Dabbler II]

Big Al's is a mail order fish supplie store Big Al's (http://www.bigalsonline.com/)
All regulators that you get for CO2 have the proper rating on them. For example you go to "Joes Welding and Supply" and ask if they have CO2regulators. Most of the people behind the counter will be most helpfull because this is something different and they know that (possably) you are not familar with the equipment and they will take the time to show you how to set it up on the bottle and soforth. As for the valve...I found this the easiest thing since I work in the field some what, but all I did was I looked in the yellowpages under Valve Suppliers and called a few places I to told the guy on the other end what it was going to be used for (CO2 service and using 110 power and that I was going to use it on my aquarium. If that guy didn't have anything they are more than happy to give you names of who does handle the stuff. :D

The CO2 bottle has about 600 PSI in it and it will stay at that till it is empty because CO2 is stored in a liquid state in the bottle

The regulater takes the 600 Psi and cuts it to anywhere from2-50 Psi (you can set it your self with a turn of the knob)

This is where you put your magnetic valve

From there you go into your needle valve for fine adjustment (20-30 bubbles a Minute)

from the needle valve you go to the bubble counter (so you can measure how fast the co2 is going in)
from there go to your reactor so it can desolve the co2 into the water (for me it goes into my Magnum 350 and then into the tank)

Since you live down under and I live in Canada the specs probley are different because of different codes since you are dealing with a preasured gas

:) Don't worry about sounding like an ignoramus just tell'em what you need and what you are using it for and they will set you up with the right equipment, those guys don't care if you are Joe off the street or a big petrochemical plant they are there to sell the proper product for the right applacation ( the guys in the industrial stores don't get paid comishion):)
I hope this helps

[Wulfy]

Thanks Dabbler and Co. Youve been a lot of help.

I will post my complete system when its done.

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Wulfy
Anyone has any suggestions, .... how
to go about getting a good CO2 kit? CO2 and the stuff to go with it.. (http://www.floridadriftwood.com/product.asp?0=217&1=252&3=414) ...just add your bottle...

[Stias']

Originally posted by Wulfy


I am aware of that. But then, the Colombia was certified to enter the atmosphere.


Who certified it?

Stias'

[aquatix02]

for a cheaper alternative you might want to try Hagen's new Nutrafin Natural CO2 system which is stated on the box work for tanks up to 180 litres and help to lower the pH.

it has gotten a good review from Practical Fishkeeping magazine in the UK as a good product with value for money. it costs only a small fraction of larger canister-type CO2 systems like the Dupla. but don't expect it to match the performance... but for a smaller tank like an 80 litre... it may just be enough. maintenance is also cheap as it relies on natural ingredients...

[Richer]

Pressurized is cheaper in the long run... it simply cannot be argued. A CO2 tank refill for a 5 pound tank here costs 10 dollars CDN (more or less), whereas a Hagen refill pack costs roughly 9 dollars CDN, plus you need to factor in the amount of sugar that needs to be added to the system. Granted the refill comes with 3 packages (good for maybe 3 months). However, the CO2 tank will last beyond 3 months... at 2 bubbles at a second, my 5 pound tank lasted for 4-5 months, including experimenting time (in which I accidently dumped a large load of CO2 into my tank). Pressurized systems work for all sized tanks, can be branched off to work on multiple tanks, and require minimal maintenance after the initial break in period. Just screw the regulator off, refill, screw the regulator back on and open the valve. Hagen's system requires cleaning, filling of sugar, and filling of the refill packages, and only works on small tanks (under 30 gallons). Once you get into the higher tanks, you'll need multiple Hagen setups, and it does get expensive to maintain in the long run. If you want to try out Hagen's CO2 system, try out DIY first. Its not hard to do, and the results are essentially the same. Don't get me wrong, I think its great that a large company is finally promoting CO2 usage, but I think there are cheaper ways of getting CO2.

Needed in all CO2 systems:

X feet of silicon (or CO2 resistant) tubing
1 - reactor of some sort (if you want more info on reactors, just ask)
1 - pH testing kit
1 - KH testing kit
this table (http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/table_01.shtml)

Checklist for a pressurized system:

1 - double guage CO2 regulator
1 - needle (or metering) valve (get it to be as precise as you can afford)
1 - CO2 tank

Optional:
1- solenoid
1- bubble counter (Not needed, since pH and KH levels can tell you exactly what CO2 concentrations you have)
1 - check valve (not needed since needle valves also act as a check valve)
1 - CO2 indicator (pH and KH testers will do just the same if not a better job at telling you your CO2 levels. I'm not too sure on how accurate these things really are).

HTH
-Richer

[karfixer]

Whatever cylinder you end up using, securing it to the wall studs with steel straps should be considered a must. You are mistaken if you think an aluminum tank will not go through your walls,floors ect. If you break the top regulator off with a full tank IT WILL HAPPEN. The steel tank is stronger, the aluminum more corrosion resistant. I think your remark about the Columbia is more than a little out of line- a Co2 tank isn't even remotely as hazerdous as space travel.