filtering with peat???

[valerie]

I would like to try reducign my ph by using peat so i can keep apistos. I would to hear how other people here do it. i have checked the internet but i haven't been able to find somewhere where it tells you how to exactly to do it(i says how it reduces the pH but not the procedure of filtering)

Right now my ph is 7.8 gh13 kh8. I would like it around 6.8 and i want to try to keep cockatoo apistos or maybe rams. I was wondering what kind of peat you use how long to you usually have to soak it, a few hours or days?

basically jsut so i knwo what i'm going to get myself into.I'm going to be trying this in my 15gal,so atleasy i would have to worry about large quantities of water here.

So basically jsut go over the basic procedure,thanks

[Molino]

I'd be interested to know this as well as my water conditions are the same and some Rams or unusual apistos would be very interesting.

[val]

Check out www.skepticalaquarist.com. wetman has some specifics, but what I've done is take a 55g drum (harder to find than I would have thought) and I've filled it with water and an airstone. I have it covered. Then, I bought some sphagnum peat, not peat moss, from a garden store, in my case, Southern States. I took an old set of my daughter's tights and filled a leg with the peat. The peat floats, this is what was never mentioned on any of the sites I read. The amount I have is quite bouyant and I couldn't find anything that was big and heavy enough to hold the peat down. So, I emptied the drum and took some aquarium silicon sealant and a couple of inches of fishing line and made a big loop in the line and siliconed it to the side of the drum, well below the water line. You can't use a suction cup, the peat is too bouyant.

Anyway, the water is filtering in peat over the past couple of months in the garage. My tank, which had a pH of 7.6 to 7.8 is now down to 7 or 7.2.

HTH


Val

[odessa]

Check out the archives here http://www.thekrib.com/Apisto/ph.html
there are several techinques disgussed reagarding ph and apistos.

[valerie]

I have read all those articles,i'm looking for personal experiences. Do the people that use peat think it is worth it? is it lots of work? I would be doing the type were you pretreat the water in a bucket to get it where i would want it.

SAy i were to add the peat to the 5 gals of water and i were to get the right ph and kh the next day. If i take the peat out of the vucket will the water stay for a few days/week without changing the parameters? Would i have to keep it airated?

[val]

I have read all those articles,i'm looking for personal experiences. Do the people that use peat think it is worth it?
Yes.

Is it lots of work?
No.

I would be doing the type were you pretreat the water in a bucket to get it where i would want it.
Do you have the ability to store water, like a garage or a basement? If you do, it should not be too much of a problem, and you'd be getting aged water, which can only be a good thing. If you are hoping to get the pH down by having it in the bucket for a day or so, then this will be a lot of work. You'd be testing it every day, you'd have to have someplace to put the peat in between your needing it, and you'd ultimately have to be able to measure it: how many cups of peat for five gallons will it take to drop your water's pH down to sub 7.0 values?

Say i were to add the peat to the 5 gals of water and i were to get the right ph and kh the next day. If i take the peat out of the vucket will the water stay for a few days/week without changing the parameters? Would i have to keep it aerated?
No.

Hope this helps....

Val

[Kit Walker]

From what I've heard from Discus breeders I wouldn't bother with peat. Seachem make buffers now which alter the pH to a stable pH (specific to some applications such as Discus). One discus breeder told me with peat the pH is not stable, but fluctuates as the peat wears out and is changed. With Seachem he said he can maintain a perfectly stable pH. He has been using Seachem instead of peat for several years now with no problems.

[valerie]

i would rather not use bottled buffers as i have heard nothign good about them. But everyhting i have read says peat is the way to do it,except if you have RO.

Ok i have added a bit more then 1 cup of peat to a 5gal bucket. I guess i will see what the parameters are tomorrow.

Val: just so i'm clear on the last point. No i wouldn't have to keep it airated or no i can't keep it without the peat for fear of the parameters changing back over about a week? Can the parameters change back?

[val]

Valerie,

I've never used any pH buffers, but most here would recommend against using them in general.

As for the peat, I haven't noticed any bounce that would indicate that the pH is rising after some period of time. My "NO" was in response to your need to keep the water aerated. The only reason for aeration is to keep the water circulating so that more water comes in contact with your peat. Now, I don't use carbon in this tank any more (and it has taken me a long time to come to this point), but there is some evidence that carbon may removing the chelating agents (read wetman's site to see if you understand this point better than I) from the water once it is in your aquarium. So, I use no carbon. If you've got carbon, you may be negating the benefits.

Again, I think the biggest issue is storing the water. It took me about three weeks of floating the peat in my 55g drum for the pH to drop noticeably, and I had to have a place where I could just let it be.

HTH

Val

[Dwarfnut]

valerie,
I have not had much luck with the bagged peat moss you can buy at like hardware stores or walmart... much better with the 'real' spagnum sold at nurseries and such. They come as peat plates and work much better. Next to that, I've gotten real good results from the Fluval peat you can buy at fish stores or online... it seems to be concentrated or something as a little goes a long way! I have used it directly in the filter and had good success that way. I've heard you can make the tank more stable by putting some in a big pot and boiling it to release all the stuff and get the action going. Then, after the water is cooled, you can take a ph reading and compare to your tank, then figure out how much you need to add to balance the tank to where you want it.

In either case, the water should not resort back on it's own... you have to change the water to change the conditions once the peat has done it's thing. The peat will 'wear' out to where it no longer does anything, so you need to change it when it looks like it is no longer making a difference.

Good luCk,
Bill C.

[Faramir]

Question - does filtering through peat lower the KH? If it doesn't, how do you allow for it when calculating the CO2 in your tank?

What I mean is, if your KH is constant, but the pH is lower than it "should" be, your CO2 estimate will be off - higher than the real figure.

[Dwarfnut]

I've never measured the KH, but I'm sure it would be lowered as well as the GH. The peat basically absords some of the dissolved minerals and releases hydrogen (I think!) thus softening the water and making it more acidic.

Bill C.

[wetmanNY]

Ion exchange sites in the peat moss will capture calcium and magnesium, thus bringing down your total dissolved solids. The latest thinking is that lower electrical conductivity (i.e. fewer electrolytes) is what "soft water" spawners need. So adding phosphates or other buffers, to stabilize the pH is counter-productive.

Eventually (or quite soon, if your water is hard) most of the available ion-exchange sites have taken up Ca and Mg, releasing that H+ that makes the peatwater more acidic. Then the peat is "spent." Don't throw it out, it's excellent soil conditioner for any kind of gardening.

Dry peat just won't get wet and just won't sink. So, pour a kettle of boiling water on it first, which will wet it and make it manageable. This is a good trick for peat going into potting mix or window boxes too. The hot water will make a "peat tea" that is perfectly good in the aquarium, but remember it's depleted of oxygen. Go easy!

(Guess I better look over the peat filtration section and make it clearer!)

[VoodooChild]

To lower the pH when I was planning to raise discus (never panned out) I just threw some of the peat plates in a ten gallon filled with water and a glass top to lower evaporation. I then threw an Aqua Clear 150 on there, which really circulated the water and occasionally ran water over the plates. The pH dropped in a couple of days. Just a thought if you have some leftover equipment laying around.

[valerie]

well test results are in...

after 20 hours(started yesterday at 8pm) my ph and kh went from 7.8ph and 8kh to what it is now ph 7.0, kh 6.

I think i will try using peat in my tank nowthat i see it wo'nt take forever to get results and it wasn't much more work. I will jsut have to get my water ready a couople days before i do water changes. I also like how my parametrs didn't change to dramaticly as i might want to add co2 down the road and don't want my tank crashing.

I will keep you posted,thanks for all the help:)

[Faramir]

Originally posted by Dwarfnut
I've never measured the KH, but I'm sure it would be lowered as well as the GH. The peat basically absords some of the dissolved minerals and releases hydrogen (I think!) thus softening the water and making it more acidic.

Bill C.

Ta!

Yes. I've finally figured out (that is, really got a feel for) the way the (bi)carbonate buffer works. Adding any acid will decrease the KH.

This may be temporary (Hence the "I added pH down, and it dropped to 6.8, but the next morning it was back to 7.4, so I added more, and by the evening it was at 7.2 again Help Help Help!!!!" posts)

Seems to be a two stage reaction.

CO3-- + 2H+ --> H2CO3 (Carbonic Acid); pH drops

H2CO3 --> H2O + CO2 - no free H+; free CO2 outgasses, the pH bounces back.

But as the amount of CO3-- drops, the extent to which this buffering reaction can occur also decreases.

OK, chemists. Tell me how I've got it wrong... ;)