Help! Added "Surfactant ammonia" to cycle!

[vitesse]

Wife and I set our new 50 gal bowfront and stand and filled it up. The next day I left on business and gave her the instructions for buying ammonia and adding it to bring the levels up for cycling...

...She did a great job but used "Clear Ammonia" that bubbled when shaken and had surfactants in it. Apparently she only added it 4 times but I have no idea what effect the surfactants will have.

Can anyone help with info? I'd hate to have to change my filter media (Eheim 2015 bio/mech) and scrub my substrate and tank because of a surfactant issue.

Please help!

[RTR]

Detergents are deadly to fish. I'd break everything down and rinse for extened periods. If the substrate is porous, I'd replace it.

[vitesse]

Thanks. Of course that's not what I wanted to hear, but I appreciate the response.

Any other ideas?

[happychem]

I agree with RTR, take it all apart, throw away anything porous, rinse, rinse, rinse, and then rinse some more.

[vitesse]

Should I replace the filter media for my Eheim '15?

Also, when you say rinse, do you mean that I should rinse each item and each handful of gravel for 5-15 seconds under cold tap water or are we talking something more intense?

In case I didn't mention, I don't have any fish yet and I am not using a porous gravel. I think the worst part is going to be rinsing my gravel and my filter stuff (hoses too??).

This is gonna take a full afternoon isn't it?
:sad:

[Celeste]

i'm using "clear ammonia" to cycle, but it was literally the ONLY thing available. i checked everywhere and couldn't find anything else. it doesnt foam when i shake it though. its just got purified water, ammonia, and chelating agent in it. i was worried about the chelating agent, but i dont know what it is.....anyone else know? this is my only option though. i went to every pet store in the city looking for the things i needed to start this tank, and NOBODY had pure ammonia for doing a fishless cycle. i had to go to walmart and just get this.

[vitesse]

Celeste makes a good point. Here in DC there was no pure ammonia option for my wife, so she did the best she could after going to Home Depot, Walmart, Safeway, Giant Food, and 2 local hardware stores.

I think that once I'm done rinsing my life and time away this weekend that I will just invest in some Bio-Spira (sp?).

My buddy has 4 (a 4-inch Oscar, an Albino Cichlid, a 3-inch Pleco, and 2-inch oscar) fish that he is about to in-humanely flush/euthenize if a home is not offered for them in 5-7 days.

Before I flush my friend, my wife and I are going to try to stage a rescue before we stock our tank until we can find a home for these 4 guys.

In the meantime, I gotta get my tank up and going.

[ParadoxLiz]

For what it's worth, I had the same "ammonia-search" problem, and finally found it at Ace Hardware - janitor strength (or something like that), 10% Ammonium Hydroxide. No foam when shaken.

Another option (though a bit wierd), is to look in the phone book under chemicals and call around asking if they would sell you a little bit of Ammonium Chloride (it's a granular thing). Then you make your own solution. There's a web site out there with directions on how much to use. I could find it if you want.

NOTE: Newbie talking here.

Liz

[Celeste]

so do i need to start over? what is chelating agent?

[cyberbeer65]

Read this....
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/Chelates/Chelates.html

[happychem]

Okay, here goes.

When we say rinse, we mean everything and anything that has been in contact with the water and surfactants. Get new filter media.

Celeste, if it didn't foam when shaken, then you're fine.

A chelate (KEY-late) is a large organic molecule used to "grab" other, smaller molecules and atoms. Since NH3 can be a gas and in concentrated solutions (or even 10% solutions ;) ) will evaporate, chelates are added to keep ammonia in solution and extend the shelf life of the bottle. Ammonium, btw, does not have a gaseous form.

Do not be fooled into thinking that because a 10% solution of NH3 will lose its clout over time that you can use aeration to remove ammonia from your tank. There's a world of difference between removing NH3 from a 10% solution and your aquarium which will have, at most, about 100,000 times less ammonia.

[RTR]

By porous I really should have said that anything other than hard smooth-surfaced material I would replace. I had much rather buy new media, gravel, etc. than new fish.

Because of all the posts about finding suitable clear ammonia, I tend to notice when I am shopping. Many if not most of the big box stores and discount operations offer store-brand inexpensive household ammonia which is ammonium hydroxide + chetator (already discussed by happychem) in water. Other than lab supply houses (not easy to find outside of large metro areas and more expensive), the cheaper the store, the better your chance of finding clear ammonia. If they have several variants, look at the cheapest first, additives cost more and provide branding differences, so carry higher costs to the consumer as often as not.

[Blueiz]

Is everyone that is having trouble finding ammonia sure that you are looking in the right place in the store? The ammonia should be located on the washing powder aisle around the bleach, or with the household cleaning products. I am not trying to make anyone feel or sound foolish, I had trouble myself finding its location. Just a thought... Have a great day!!!

[Xielos]

I have a bottle of ammonia that dosen't foam but says contains surfacants. Still confused :(

[happychem]

The foaming would come from detergents.

Surfactants act in a similar manner. Sorry for the short answer, I gotta run, but wanted to give you a little info.

[Blueiz]

surfactants are detergents. You should not use any ammonia that has this as an ingriedient regardless if it suds or not. Make sure you get plain ammonia. The only ingriedients that should be on the bottle are water,, ammonia, and cheleating agents. Hope this helps!!

[Xielos]

So chelating stuff is ok? Sweet, the stuff at Wal-Mart is ok then :idea2:

[RTR]

For many, Wal-Mart is the surest source. Ace harware is fairly widespread also, and locally for me CVS drug stores offers a comparable cheap and safe house brand.