unidentified female holding eggs in mouth.....

[flutterbye75]

Well, last week I posted a thread about a female that I couldnt Identify.....she is now holding eggs in her mouth. I inherited the tank from my mom and now she is holdidng. I have never had cichlids before, but I have read up on them quite a bit. This however does not make me an expert on the fish. My question is what should I do now? I did however see who the culprit was who mated with her, because he was the only male in the tank that was going crazy and shaking at her. I understand that she will hold the eggs in her mouth for a while. In the meantime what are the next steps and how to I get prepared to feed the fry? What will they eat?

Thank you

[sumthin fishy]

It will help to know what kind of fish it is. I've found a lot of cichlids will feed thier fry flake food, by chewing it up and spitting it out. You may want to just let nature run its course. If you are concerned, you can go buy "liquifry" food for egg layers. Feed as the directions, (I think only a drop or two twice a day if memory serves). Most cichlids are good parrents, but it may take a few tries to get it right. If you are concerned about loosing the first batch or two of fry, you can take the fry out, but the parrents will never learn. Parenthood is one of the many attractive qualities of these fish, so IMO it's better to let them figure it out.

What are the other tankmates, and did you ever figure out what kind of cichlid it is?

[flutterbye75]

i still dont know what she is, but the male that she bread with was an electric blue. I have a picture of her that I will show you.

[flutterbye75]

here is a picture of the male as well

[sumthin fishy]

Pretty fish. But Im no ID expert. Did lovemykribs, AKA diana look at them? Shes pretty good at IDs. I'm going to assume they are different fish, and if they do in fact breed you will have hybrids. If this is the case, PLEASE do not sell them to a fish store. Keep some for yourself if you want them, but hybrids will polute a pure genepool and that is a very bad thing

[flutterbye75]

okay, say she is not the same as the male, how then can I create a pure strain of fish? or is it possible. The male that she mated with was an electric blue. Could I continue breeding the babies with that type of fish and 'bump' out the other strain? I would not sell the babies, if anything I would get more tanks, possibly create a room of aquariums, I have 5 already.

[sumthin fishy]

Well to create a "pure" strain, you need another female, same species as the male. I will state again that I am not well versed in IDing these fish ( mabey the folks at www.malawimahem.com could help?) Some cichlids the male looks quite different than the female, so they might be the same species. If they are different species, in essence, you have a mule. A horse bred with a donkey so to speak. Only problem is, these hybred fish are firtile, unlike a mule. They can be re-breed. If this is the case, you might have some that look very much like one or the other. If you sold those to a petstore, someone might purchase it thinking its a pure strain, breed it, and tiny genetic differences will polute the gene pool. There is no problem with breeding hybrids, as long as you don't sell them, give them away, etc. Verifying the types of fish you have will be an inportant factor here.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Ive tried to ID the female but many females of the genus look simliar, and it might be quite hard to get a positive ID. Raf couldnt even say for sure... other than its a Protomelas genus. I suggest posting these pictures over at Malawi Mayhem and see if anyone over there has some input... :)

As far as hybrids go its a touchy issue. Some people will kill hybrids and others will keep them because 'they are not any less of a fish'. Im somewhere in between on the issue....
But i highly reccommend you try to find a female for your electric blue, or if you can ID your female try and find her a male.
Dont try to breed the fry to the male to try to 'breed out' certian traits.... lots of people do that but that just pollutes the gene pool with hybrids like those 'yellow yellow' labs that are really crosses with red zebras.

With these fry I suggest you let nature take its course. Let the female spit the fry in the tank and they can fend for themselves. If some live, then you will have mutant little fish :P, but likely they will be eaten naturally, just like in the wild. By the time they are spat by the mother they should be able to find food themselves. Because they are hybrids i dont suggest going out of your way to feed them, but for future reference finely crushed flake and baby brine shrimp are great fry foods.

:)
-Diana

PS- I just looked at your 'electric blue'... it definately is not a true one. Likely a hybrid. What did you buy it as?

[scholar]

The male is also a Protomelas. So the babies are not a hybrid. The parents may be of different color morphs which is OK. :)

[liv2padl]

neither of your fish are 'electric blue' cichlids. the male may be Haplochromis similis or other "Protomelas" species and i suspect so is your female.

[flutterbye75]

Well i did a bit more research and what I came up with is exactly what you all are saying. The male is definately not an electric blue. That is what my mom was told. As for the male being a Protomelas, that is what it is. The female is also the same thing. I found a website that showed shots of the males and females. They look the same. I am assuming that the rest of the fish in the tank are not what my mom says they are. I am pretty sure that I have all haps in the tank except for the Jack Dempsy. (Dont ask me why he is in the tank as well) I understand they require different water chemistry. He seems to be thriving, very old though. Thanks for all your help.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

The male is also a Protomelas. So the babies are not a hybrid. The parents may be of different color morphs which is OK. :)

I HIGHLY disagree, that could not be more wrong. ;) The Protomelas genus is very large with some fish that look very different. The fry will still be hybrids..... unless they are both of the same species and even variant.

The male you have doesnt even look to be a pure Protomelas, but a better picture is needed to be sure. I still think he's likely a mutt. The smallest minute different (like a touch of yellow on the anal fin) will signify the purity of this fish.

The closest Protomelas species I could find that looks similar to your male is the Protomelas taeniolatus spec. "Fire Blue".
http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=544
Although you can't go just based on coloration.... post more pictures of your male from different angles to be sure. :)

HTH
-Diana

[flutterbye75]

I took as many pictures that my fish would allow. He has trouble staying still. I am trying to resize them so they will fit. I loooked at the fish that you showed and it looks very similar. The dorsal fin of the fish was being pecked at from another fish, it is pointed in an upward motion. As for the yellow on the anal fin, there is a slight yellow tint, although it hardly shows up in the pictures. There are also the same markings on the dorsal fin and tail that look like a maze pattern for lack of a better discription. Give me a minute and I will post all the pictures that I took.

[flutterbye75]

here they are......

[flutterbye75]

and then there are these

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Good pictures :thm:

However it is still tricky to give this guy a positive ID. He's a beautiful fish, thats for sure, but whether or not he is a pure fish is really hard to tell. He looks good though, and seems to have Protomelas features indicating hes likely purely Protomelas, although I cant say for sure. Which species he is again is hard to say. He looks mostly similar to the "fire blue" (which would make sense since that name is similar to 'electric blue', and your mom may have switched them). Raf says that the 'fire blue' doesnt really have any yellow flecks in the body, which yours seems to have. Its hard to go just by pictures as well.

I pulled up some more pictures of the 'fire blue' Protomelas (some of these may be different locations though and thus slightly different coloration):

http://www.africancichlid.de/bilder/laichakt/proto7_g%20450x338.jpg
http://www.cichlidnewsmagazine.com/issues/2004jan/images/36d.jpg
http://oldworldexoticfish.com/photos/steveni%20nkhata.jpg

Its the same with the female, she looks Protomelas but which species its very hard to tell since many look very similar.

Does your mom remember anything further about these fish? Did she buy these guys together as being of the same species?

I suggest you enjoying these fish and not worry about what they exactly are, and definately not take any fry from them. If you are interested in breeding its best to acquire good specimens that are known to be true, so you can breed them and have pure babies. :D

As I said before, he's sure a pretty fish ;)

PS- do they have dark lips like in the pictures, or is that just a trick of the camera? Ive never seen dark lips like that before....

:)
HTH
-Diana

[scholar]

I also checked the fire blue hap and thought it was a perfect match. Though did not state it. The female looked different than a Fire Blue female.

The point about the wide range of Protomolus species is well taken. Whether that makes the fry a mutt or not, depends id the female is a Taeniolotus or not. Fire Blue is a Taeniolotus.

[flutterbye75]

PS- do they have dark lips like in the pictures, or is that just a trick of the camera? Ive never seen dark lips like that before....


I believe that it is just a trick of the camera. As well as the yellow flecks in the body. If you look at the fish in the aquarium, everything is very blue. A slight hew of yellow on the tips of the anal fin though, but that is it. I spoke to my mom and she cant remember if it was a fire blue or an electric blue. She got some from her cousin. Her cousin breeds many different varieties of cichlids. He has a store in the basement of his house....weird......anyways she says that she is pretty sure that he would not mix the breeds when he was breeding them. He also warned her not to have to many varieties in one tank either. She seems to think that they are pure. Anyways, I really appreciate all your hard work in helping me id these fish. I am not going to worry as to what they are, and I definately will not take any fry from them, just in case. I love watching them. I had to seperate one fish though, he was very aggressive. I dont know what to do with it now. My mom says get rid of it. Im too soft hearted to part with him though, you never know if he may change his mind and become friendly. ;)

Thanks
L

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Haha dont be fooled! ;)

Well I think your safe to call it a 'fire blue', just dont breed it. :)


What part of canada are you from?

-Diana

[flutterbye75]

I am from the greater Vancouver area.


What happens if they breed on their own in the community tank?

I didnt want them to have babies. I was just watching one day and seen one that wouldnt eat and the other doing a funny dance. I thought that it was stress from moving the tank. Funny fish!!

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Hehe, if they breed just leave them be. Some babies might survive... but not likely. In my tanks the only thing i've had survive to adulthood with the big boys is one C. afra fry :p:

I'm from Vancouver too.... North Van to be precise. Malawi Mayhem is a vancouver based site with LOTS of regular local breeders that visit it. If you were ever interested in getting more fish or different fish check out the site, or let me know and I can give you the phone numbers of some breeders.

:)
-Diana

[flutterbye75]

I would like that very much, I was thinking just this morning that I should return all the fish I have and maybe get pairs of true breeds. I still like africans that is for sure. What do you suggest? I was taking a look at your tanks as well, and was wondering about the rocks. How do you prepare the rocks for the tank? Do you boil them or what? I want to add some slate and a few large rocks in the tank. What do you suggest?

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Yeah I definately suggest getting africans, thier color is usually only matched by saltwater fish, and they have neat personalities too. (Although if you had the money and time then i do reccommend saltwater! Im hooked to that... having more salt tanks than african tanks ;) ).

All my rockwork is taken from the Seymour river or up at Lynn Canyon. Its good to boil or bleach the rocks if your taking them from a polluted area, but if its up in the mountians and clean then I think a few good soaks in hot hot hot water should be good enough. Give them a scrub too just incase. Then i put lighting crate down on the bottom of the tank, add some substrate (sand is the best for africans), add the rocks securely so the fish cant topple them, and then add the rest of the substrate. You want to make sure the rocks are sitting right on the lighting crate and not on the substrate, so the fish dont try to dig underneath them.

I prefer natural rocks thats why i get them from the rivers or beaches, but landscaping supply places are great for finding cheap rocks like slate.... dont bother buying from a pet store they are usually more expensive.
:)

-Diana