Plant Spikes

[Emg]

I just wanted to share with others who may be considering plant spikes in their aquariums..........DON"T DO IT !!

I have a 29 planted community tank that I have been battling hair algae in for quite some time now. Doing water changes...adding CO2 via flourish excel...trimming the algae covered leaves off my plants....and adding more plants....and about 3 or 4 days after a major water change and cleaning....the algae would start creeping back and it wouldn't be 2 days before I started to get frustrated by the looks of it.

Well, at the last major cleaning I removed the plant spikes.......and it's been almost a week and my tank is still looking great !! My plants have dwindled in size because of all the trimming I've had to do...especially the amazon sword...and as slow as they grow, it'll be awhile before they're back to thier original density and size ! (they were beautiful ! :sad: )

Anyway, just wanted to caution folks about the use of those nasty things ! I'm sure you people in the know are aware of the issue, but those who aren't as experience...like me before all this...will want to know ! :)

Some pics of the tank and plants now...one week after the major cleaning and removal of the spikes......

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_algaeissueGONE.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/algaeissueGONE.jpg)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_DCP_7631.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/DCP_7631.jpg) http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_DCP_7628.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/DCP_7628.jpg) http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/th_DCP_7632.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/morroman/emgfishpics/DCP_7632.jpg)

BTW...Stocking list for this tank:
1 pair german blue rams
2 quarter size koi angels
2 otocinclus
5 prestella tetras

equiptment:
170 penguin bio-wheel
100watt heater

Ferts:
daily dose with flourish excel
weekly dose of floursh

Lighting:
65watts 6700K PC flourescent fixture

substrate:
Mix of gravel, flourite and echo-complete for planted tanks

Plants:
Java fern
amazon sword
water lilies
assorted aponogetons
red wyndth (however you spell that)
water sprite
water wysteria
ludwigia (I think!)

[Raithan Ellis]

I had similar issues back in the day with green hair algae and jobe's fern spikes... even had them burried under a hefty depth of substrate into the lowest peatmoss layer... I can only presume they leeched a bit of something into the watercolumn to set things off. Ever since I've only used Flourish tabs in small quantity and have had decent results.

[reiverix]

Well your tank certainly looks spotless now. This is the one reason why I'll never use tabs - no control over them, although some people do swear by them for heavy root feeders.

[djlen]

We need to refer folks who are considering in-substrate tabs/spikes, to this thread.
They are not worth the danger of uprooting them and releasing their unused contents into the water column.

Len

[RTR]

Personally, I have no issues with Jobe's spikes at all. But I do use them with care and never get ammonia leaking into the water column or resultant algae issues. Also I use them to produce green water for infusoria. Technic is everything in their use I suppose.

[Captain Hook]

I'm with RTR. I've used Jobes sticks for about a year now and have never had any problems with them. I personally think they are great for heavy root feeders like crypts and swords so I will continue to recommend them to people.

[Emg]

I'm not sure that the ones I was using were Jobes...I can't recall what the brand name was. The ferts were in a black plastic spike shaped thing that had holes all down the length of the tube. Also, My substrate isn't super deep either...couple of inches is all, more toward the back.

So the fact that they weren't buried very deep..and they may not have been Jobes spikes...could have had something to do with the issue. If I had a deeper substrate that may well have lessened the problem I seemed to have with them.

Hey, I'm learning....lol......but I most likely will never go the plant spike route again, though they may very well be a good way to get ferts to some plants. You know how when you make yourself sick by eating too much of something...puts you off it FOREVER !! Lol ! :rolleyes:

[Roan Art]

Would you people who use the spikes successfully mind posting how you used them? How deep the substrate, how deep the spike, etc.,.. Possible something may come to light that we're not doing correctly which results in algae problems.

Roan

[RTR]

My use of Jobe's is simple. Originally I used the "palm and fern" formulation, but since that has become uncommon or non-existant, I use the standard houseplant formulation. I break or cut the spike into thirds or quarters (smaller pieces for Crypts or young/small Swords, larger pieces for larger Swords. I use large forceps (12") and insert them at least 2-3" into the substrate, most often full substrate depth (3-4" in most of my current tanks). If I am replanting/dividing any Crypt stands, or moving immature Swords, and old spikes pulled up are removed before replanting - I do routinely substrate vacuum the area when replanting.

[Captain Hook]

Emg there are different types of the Jobes sticks so it's possible you were using a higher N version which could cause problems I suppose. Your tank is lookin good so that's a good sign!

I should have specified that I also use the ferns and palms spikes.

RTR has covered it well above. I don't use forceps but pretty everything else is the same. That's a good Christmas idea though...

I just try to make sure the sticks are buried at least a 1/2" below the surface. More is probably safer and better for most plants. When pulling the plants, bit will sometimes break up into the water but I try to vacuum them up as much as possible.

[Roan Art]

Would the use of spikes or Flourish tabs help prevent vals from leaching KH out of the water column?

Roan

[Raithan Ellis]

My previous experience with the Jobe's Fern sticks was cutting each stick into approximately 8-10 very small pieces with a razor (very carefully, they snap!), then I would just plunge them into about 2.5"-3.5" of onyx down into a very thin peatmoss layer at the bottom. The initial growth was actually very good, you could certainly tell which plants had direct access to the tabs... I can only presume that during vaccuming and substrate disruption that some broken down bits leeched out. I never could manage to find the old ones to pick out... probably due to the small size.


"Would the use of spikes or Flourish tabs help prevent vals from leaching KH out of the water column?"

Well, that's a good question... Firstly, I think we need to answer if Vals prefer to get their calcium via the roots or water column if both are offered... Does anyone know this? I've always used a little bit of oolitic aragonite sand mixed in with any substrate I plan to plant Vallisnaria in. From experience, it seems to make the difference between fair growth and explosive growth.

Secondly, I am uncertain of the makeup of Jobe's Fern sticks, however here is the makeup of Flourish Tabs right off the box for you (They do appear high in calcium.):

Total Nitrogen (N) 0.28% (Water Soluble)
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 0.17%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 0.16%
Calcium (Ca) 14.9%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.06% (Water Soluble)
Sulfur (S) 12.2% (Combined)
Boron (B) 0.029%
Chlorine (Cl) 0.55%
Cobalt (Co) 0.001%
Copper (Cu) 0.001% (Soluble)
Iron (Fe) 2.2% (Soluble)
Maganese (Mn) 0.23% (Soluble)
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0009%
Sodium (Na) 0.14%
Zinc (Zn) 0.0024% (Soluble)

(Derived from: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Maganesium Chloride, Ferrous Gluconate, Cobalt Sulfate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate, Protein Hydrolysates)

Hope this helps!

[RTR]

It is not the calcium which Vals extract from the water column - that gets deposited/precipitated as a by-product when they are doing biogenic decalcification*. It is the carbon from carbonate/bicarbonate that they are removing. To avoid that, provide them with carbon from lower energy cost souces (CO2 or Excel).

* http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/decalcification.html

[beviking]

Wow, I'm shocked Emg that you had missed previous threads on this. I haven't seen one in a while (not that I see all anyway...far from it!) so it's good you did post it. :thm:

I used them in a shallow subsrate also and had a nasty green water outbreak for the longest time.

Thanks for pointing out that you use the "standard houseplant formulation" RTR, those I bought and stopped using will be used in my next Deep Gravel set-up.

[RTR]

They are higher in phosphate along with urea-based nitrogen, so can do a nice job of promoting green water and or attached algae if they get in the water column. But that also does make them handy for making green water when you need it (not in your planted tanks of course) and they don't smell as hay or leafy vegetable cultures can do at times.

[Onikun]

I'm using the ferns and palms one. cut it into small pieces and stuck it in the gravel. Just started using it the other day. i'll see what happens.