Need some advice

[NJ Devils Fan]

Ok, I just brought back a dead angel fish to get store credit or another fish. The man tested my water and said that it was a bit high, around 7.4ish. That was why the angel died, because they need to be in water of lower p.h. So I told what other fish I had in the tank, and he said that they all like to be in a lower p.h. The thing I don't get is that when I test my water, the p.h. is at 7.0. I look in the sunlight and in lamp light, and it's the same thing. But when I get it tested there, it is a bit higher. Is it my test that is bad or theres? Should I do anything to lower the p.h.? All the other fish seem fine to me, thats what I don't get.

[morleyz]

I don't think a pH of 7.4 killed an angel. Especially not that quickly. If I buy a fish from the LFS and it dies withing the first 2 weeks, I just chalk it up to a sick fish. Don't go too crazy trying to figure out what is wrong with 1 dead, new fish. I've seen people start medicating, etc. because they had a new fish die...and it's just not a good idea for all the healthy ones. I guess I could be wrong, but I have lot's of "lower" pH fish in "higher" pH water and they've been fine, breeding, etc.

What kind of test are you using and what kind of test are they using. I find that the "strip" tests are a lot more variable and the liquid reagent tests. It might be worth it to invest in a new test...especially if yours is getting older.

As far as lowering the pH...if you were so compelled, your pH isn't all that high, so something like peat filtering or maybe planting the tank can soften it up and bring the pH down a bit. How high is your KH?

HTH

[terror]

i don't think high ph killed your fish... except if it was shocked by sudden ph change?

my angelfish bred like crazy and they were in a tank with water ph of 7.5

[Lukara]

I would be curious to know the PH of the angel tank at the pet store... wouldn't it be nice to know if his levels are about the same as yours at home. I doubt that a PH of 7.4 was the cause of death and wonder if the shop might be pulling a fast one on you.

[JP457]

Was this at petco? If it was dont listen to anything they tell you about ph. They believe that every fish except cichlids belong in "perfect 7.0" its not worth even listening.

[Richer]

Tackling pH issues are a huge headache. Its easy to raise the KH, GH and pH of your water, but its diffcult to lower them. pH is near the bottom of my list for cause of death. I have sucessfully kept angels, neons, etc. etc. in water straight out of my tap (so to speak). With a KH ranging from 7-9 and pH generally hovering around near 8. Thats far from the "ideal" pH range for fish such as angels and such, but they all lived quite nicely during that one year they were in that tank. Now they are all living in a 70gallon planted tank, as happy as can be.

I would look elsewhere for possible cause of death, if it just came from the pet store, and your water is good (ammonia = 0, nitrite = 0, etc.) then I would blame it on a sickly fish. As much as I hate to say this... many of the "experts" at the fish stores aren't exactly informed. Don't get me wrong, there are the few that do care, and can give excellent information, but I've only met 2-3 of them so far.

A pH of 7.4 is actually decent, don't worry about adjusting it. What I would do is find out what kind of water your fish store keeps its fish in and determine a course of action from there. If the water is far off from that of your tank (ie. pH is way off, KH is off, etc.) then acclimilate your fish into your tank slowly. Adding a few teaspoons of tank water into the bag every 10-20 minutes until the bag is full. This may take a long time to do, but it does cut back on shock deaths. It also cuts back on a fish's lag time by quite a bit.

HTH
-Richer

[StevieM]

Next time you take a fish home from the store I would test the water they give you in the bag with the fish. I too was all concerned about pH levels for my neons and rams, until I realized that all of the local stores I go to had water of the same parameters as mine. They seemed to do quite well in the FS so why fix it if it isn't broke? My fish do quite well in my 7.5 pH water.

[NJ Devils Fan]

The test kits that I use are the same ones that the store use, the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits. I really think that they are wrong, because when I check the water, it is always at 7.0. I remember I checked the p.h. in the water I had my drift wood soaking in, and it was like 6.2, so I know my test is right. That's one thing I don't like about going to some fish stores, they make me feel like a moron while I do know what I am talking about.

My kh is 4 and my gh is 6.

[StevieM]

like Richer said, employees have been known to make mistakes. It would be easy to assume that for the experiment to come out with the same exact results every time, you would have to have all variables constant, i.e. putting in the exact amount of reagent for a given volume of water you are testing. I know I've gotten differing results on numerous occasions. As long as I know that things aren't crashing with my tanks, I'm ok with some slight variation in my readings here and there. I think the important thing is that you know enough to take their advice or suggestions with a grain and know enough to get second opinions on fishy matters. The pros on here have helped me out on more occasions that my lfs people, I can tell you that! Good luck with any replacements.

steve

[NJ Devils Fan]

Thanks steve.

As far as replacements, I got wisper jumbo size bio bags and some black diamond carbon to put in my emperor 400s instead of getting fish. The angel was about $12.99. I think I paid $1.57 for the bags and carbon.

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
..... The angel was about $12.99..... How large was the Angel? At that price I'm guessing the fish was rather large sized. If so, it could be an older fish and not brought up in the 'best of conditions'. I try and get younger fish and have them 'grow out'.. As for the PH variation, I doubt that would have been any factor. It is a great idea to put 'your' tank water into the fish bag so it mixes with the stores. Remember to have temperatures very close to each other to minimize stress.

Another thing is to politely ask that LFS person about his GH and KH readings! That would be very interesting on hearing his/her comment on that! :D

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by NJ Devils Fan
The test kits that I use are the same ones that the store use, the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kits....... That's one thing I don't like about going to some fish stores, they make me feel like a moron while I do know what I am talking about.

My kh is 4 and my gh is 6. Too bad there are some 'know-it-alls' out there and either don't or won't care.. On the other hand, I've met some great LFS workers. After several visits to each store, you will know what to expect from those providing a service to the customers.

[NJ Devils Fan]

The angel was medium size.

[EagerAqua]

With my relatively limited experience in fish keeping I have come to the conclusion that it is up to me to do the research to make a decision. I do not rely on the LFS person. Case in point - (1) suggestion to cycle the tank with 4 dwarf gouramis; and on a second occasion (2) asked for 6 bleeding-heart tetras, was handed the bag with the fish and saw that she had given me 6 diamond tetras. When I pointed this out she argued vehemently and said she could not tell the difference (uh, the little red dot on the side of the fish). Then she actually said to me sarcastically, "Oh well, the customer is always right".

I don't mean to belabor the point here and probably sound like I am just trying to stir the pot here. Also, I am not suggesting that all LFS employees are bad, just that it is really up to the individual fish owner to ensure that they are knowledgeable about their hobby and do the necessary research.

NJ Devils Fan, sorry about your Angel. Through reading your past posts I think it is safe to say that you have a much better understanding of fish keeping than a lot of LFS employees.

Eager

[beviking]

NJ - "O.k. (salespersons name), but what is your gh and kh?"

Salesperson - "g...h...what? Mr., are you drunk? I know the alphabet. ...G,H,I,J,K...what are you talking about? Oh well, the customer is always right!"

NJ - "I'LL CLEAN YOUR HOSES!!"

Seriously, I'd also ask that person to test the water in their tanks too. And stand right there looking over their shoulder!