View Full Version : Resistant Ich
I've been treating an ich breakout that got into my main tank when my QT broke down with medication (maracide) since some of my plants are nontolerant of the salt concentration needed to cure the ich. I am on treatment 3 (Day 6) and everything was going fine until this morning when I noticed an explosion of ich spots on some of my fish. It seems like some of these ich developed a resistance to the malachite green in the ich and are rapidly multiplying in the 82* treatment temperature. I've raised the main tank temperature to 88*F and it is slowly going up to that temperature. I hope this strain is not heat resistant also and will die off with the heat treatment alone. I have also set up my hospital tank wih the same water parameters as my main 55 gallon and the same temperature 88*F if the heat fails. If needed I will be transferring all the fish (don't know how since the tank is pretty densely planted) to the hospital tank and using my salt cure. I will be transfering the penguin 350 biowheel to that tank also to try and bring enough biofiltration from the main tank. 22 fish most longer than 2 inches in a 10 gallon is pretty tough bioloadwise so a last resort. Removing the plants is not an option and neither is salt in my main tank. Any other ideas?
schiejr
12-25-2005, 4:46 PM
I've used Quickcure in planted tanks with good results before.
Quick Cure contains formalin as well as malachite green. I used malachite green + chitosan which is supposed to coat the fish preventing re-infection or the parasite while the malachite green takes care of any swarmers in the water. Seemed to be working as I saw no new spots 5 days into the treatment. Suddenly today I have 4 fish out of 22 covered in ich with 7 or more spots and one fish showing one spot. The rest seem to not show any spots but it could be in their gills. I would hate to use formalin in the tank as that would require me to reduce the temperature and with the maracide in on the fish, it could be fatal. The maracide binds to the fish for a minimum of 2 days making quick cure difficult.
Well I am going to play it a little risky and added 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons of salt to the tank. Not an effective dose to cure ich but it will help stimulate slime coat production making invading the fish a little more difficult for the parasite.
Well here is a picture of one of my infected skirt tetras. I am pretty sure this is ich. My red tail shark does not show spots but is definately showing labored breathing though still eating and chasing other fish around the tank.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/rrkss/ich.jpg
Have you tried adding a half dose of salt? That may help kill some of the ich, just not as fast.
I've never had any problem with full strength salt and my plants (crypt, java fern, amazon sword, java moss).
daveedka
12-26-2005, 6:51 AM
Are you using full dose meds? Half doses seldom work (I've never had them works for me, not even once! ) and with Tetra's most folks stay away from full dose, and that ends up being the cause of failure. If the meds had any type of decent success rate at half dosage, there would not be a different doasage reccomended for tougher fish.
I don't fully understand why salt is not an option. Having used salt in planted tanks I cannot find a reason for concern. I have not housed every plant out there, but haven't heard of anyone actually having trouble with short term salt use and plants.
Although it would be difficult, with tetra's involved, I would probably move them to the hospital tank if You are dead set against salt in the main tank. If 10g isn't enough (It would be tight as you said) I'd get a bucket or plastic tub with a little more volume. I use sterilite plastic tubs for grow out tanks, and they are a pretty good options for quick cheap space. They are not the best option for observing fish though.
You could also divide and conquer if you are in fact using half dosage medications. Move all of your sensative fish (I did not check your stock list so this may be mute) to the 10g and treat with salt. Leave the hardier fish in the main tank and reat with a full dosages of something.
HTH
Dave
David did you use the full 3 teaspoons per gallon dose? Also I was using full strength medication in my fight against ich. That is what makes it strange for me. The ich was under control, appeared to have dissapeared but I was still treating it with one more treatment left. Suddenly it explodes.
I've uprooted the sensitive plants and put them in the 10 gallon hospital I set up. The rest of the plants are in the tank including vallisneria (survived a 0.6% salt solution in the past), and amazon sword (I hope this one survives, uprooting it is just too much of a pain and a stress on the fish)
daveedka
12-26-2005, 10:04 AM
I have gone as high as three teaspoons per rated gallon, Although my general dosage is two teaspoons per gallon of rated tank size (not actual volume) so it's hard to say exactly where the levels were but somewhere between 2 and 3 teaspoons per gallon either way. I unfortunately did not measure the tank volumes when I filled them so I have to go on rated tank size not actual volume of water.
The sword I can definately vouch for. it won't have issue with short term salt. The only thing that even showed signs of a problem for me was anachris, and it did not die just looked a little rough for a few days.
dave
rrkss
12-26-2005, 10:22 AM
This tank had anacharis which in the past for me died with the salt dosage so I took it out. I am going to go with your 2 teaspoons per rated gallon dose and see what happens. My temperature is up at 88* should I lower it to allow more oxygen to dissolve in the water?
daveedka
12-26-2005, 10:39 AM
I personally never run my temps that high, but enough people do that I don't think it's a problem. I hesitate to say which is better because I haven't tried the temps quite that high. One thing for sure, ich will have more trouble at 88 than it would at 82. I'm just not sure how 88 plays into the plant and fish equation. My personal preference has always been 80-82 but I imagine I'm being very conservative based on what other report.
dave
rrkss
12-26-2005, 11:10 AM
Every 12 hours I am going to turn the thermostat down by 2* until I get the temp to 84* as the salinity goes up. I think 2 1/2 teaspoons per rated gallon will be sufficient for my situation. My hydrometer broke :-( so I can't measure it exactly.
rrkss
12-26-2005, 11:50 AM
David did you treat for the full 10 days with salt in your planted tank. I now think I know why my maracide treatment broke down. The tank is very high light with over 2 wpg and maracide is light sensitive. Probably the malachite broke down too quickly and some ich parasites survived.
daveedka
12-26-2005, 12:37 PM
I have treated full dose for as much as 3 weeks continually with plants in the tank. My q-tank doubles as a plant grow out tank and houses about 15 types of plants at any given time. It's running 5 wpg, pressurized Co2 and high fertilizer levels. Anachris was the only thing to show different than normal growth or symptoms.
Dave
That makes me feel a lot better. I've cured ich in the past numerous times with salt and love this treatment above medications. No staining, no organic breakdown, or anything else to worry about. I am normally very careful about introducing new fish into my main tanks but this time my QT failed and it was either take the risk or lose my new fish. I took the risk and now have to pay for it. Salt cures 9 different types of parasite infections so anything I don't know about in that tank will be hit also. Thanks for the help, I'll keep everyone posted about my plants and more importantly my fish.
Well I've added the salt into the tank. I did it in one shot using the airline hose method to slowly dispense some tank water with the 2 1/2 teaspoons per gallon of salt into the tank since the temperature is still pretty high 85* at the moment (Doing it in 3 doses like normal would give the ich the chance to go through a lifecycle at this temp). So far the fish look fine. I have to test the water very well since adding all the salt at once is known to disable nitrite eating bacteria though the salt will treat the effects of that. As long as my ammonia eaters are still working I am fine. I hope this works.