What to do with empty pond? Leave it or what?

[fIsHy13]

My two goldfish have died... :(

I was just wandering if I can put some new fishes in the pond now, or is it best to do that in the spring?

Also, if i don't get fish, should i drain the pond and then refill in the spring?

[msouth468]

Put them in at spring time. The shock of doing it in winter will most likely kill them. As for draining the water I don't see a need to. Did you have a means to keep the water open? How did your goldfish die?

[Gambusia]

Put new fish in at springtime!

Try to find out why your goldfish died

[joephys]

I would get the fish now and keep them in an aquarium inside untill spring, that way they will be a little bit older and more likely to survive next winter.

[somuchtolearn]

this maybe completely off topic but would leaving a pond empty hurt the pond in some way? i only ask that because inground pools should never be drained out completely for a extended time.

[frloplady]

I think it would depend on the construction of the pond. Rubber lined pond or plastic preform would be fine empty. Actually I can't think of a pond that would be hurt by being empty? Unless it was built like the pools you are mentioning =:>

[fIsHy13]

I think my goldfish died of shock, becuase of the water being so cold. But I can never find out why they really died, I just hope it doesn't happen!

It's nearly spring soon, right?

[Riso-chan]

Yeah, it should be spring within a month or so. Sorry about the fish you lost, I know how that must feel.
I would do this if I were you, so you can be better prepared next winter:

1. Save some money if need be and setup a kiddy pool, or large enough tank (dependant on the number of goldfish you'll have) for indoor over-wintering the fish. Remember, most goldfish can and will grow to and possibly over a foot if given enough space, so make sure their indoor home will be as suitable to their needs as the pond.
And I agree that you probably should keep them indoors for a month or two while you get the pond cleaned up and reorganized to allow them to grow so they'll have better survival odds outdoors.

2. Also invest in a heater for your outdoor pond incase temps dip unexpectedly, and also get one for their indoor setup, to avoid temp shock to the fish.

3. Next, if you don't have some already, get some hardy aquatic plants for the pond, and the indoor setup for quickening cycling as well as added natural filtration.

4. One tip I might add for over-wintering, goldfish require a depth of 30 inches or more to survive colder temps, as long as the pond doesn't freeze solid, they should be fine. The hardier of the goldfish family as far as temperature tolerance goes, is the comet. The others are fairly vunerable.

If there's anything else I can help you with, please PM me. I should read over this forum more, because I know it's not nearly as active as the others here. So please if you need help and haven't gotten any replies here, I should be available, as I often come here to read over others' posts. Good luck with planning what to do next.~Angela

[frloplady]

Yeah, it should be spring within a month or so.

Oh Angela if only that were true...it just seems soooo far away..but it is February already... haven't seen the fish in the pond since December. I get my fish fix with the goldies in their fish tank and the koi in quarantine out in the greenhouse....

[fIsHy13]

Thanks, Angela. I'll keep your tips in mind and defiantely PM you if I have a problem. One thing I am worried about is frogs and goldfish together. Right now there is a hibernating frog in the pond, and when spring/ summer comes, other frogs are bound to come to the pond, jump on the first frog they see and do what comes naturally. Won't the goldies eat the tadpoles/young frogs? Plus, if there is quite a big frog, and quite a small goldfish, will the frog EAT the goldfish? It's a worrying thought...

[Riso-chan]

Thje only frogs/toads I'd worry over would be marine toads(aka bufo frogs). Most other amphibians shouldn't pose a threat. If your fish are purchased at a size maybe over 2-3 inches, it would be difficult for many frogs toads to get it down I think. We've had frogs that are probably medium sized living in there with the fish before and nothing bad has happened. Of course during the summer rainy season they'll sing straight into the night serenading females, despite your discomfort trying to sleep. The fish may eat many of the tadpoles, but they'll be tons once they hatch, so many will survive nonetheless. It's the safety in numbers scheme; have many offspring so that out of many that will be eating your genes will still be passed on in the ones that do survive. Don't worry too much about them, they have hard pickings in a wild habitat as well. Keep us posted on your planning. ~Angela

[fIsHy13]

I feel relieved now. :) But my pond is only 40 gallons- i'n pretty sure there won't be enough room for goldfish AND frogs! What do you think?

[Riso-chan]

Well, I've read that 2 adult goldfish could be housed in a 20gal, so I'd estimate(could be wrong here) that it could be within reason to house 2-4 common goldfish, but nothing over. Get a bunch of good plants to export the excess nutrients in the water from their waste. You can definately post in the "aquatic plants" section to ask what kinds you'll need.:)

Depending on what kind of frogs you have, they should only breed during certain seasons which won't pose a problem. Plus, the goldies should take care of some of them, a percentage will grow just large enough that they won't get eaten because the fish can no longer fit them in their mouths. For a short period they should coexist well, this should last around few weeks or so, then they'll hop out when they're ready and be on their merry way. Don't be stressed if a few frogs decide to stay, they should not bother your fish or plants, or add much of a staggering amount to your bioload.

Besides, they will appreciate the little ecosystem you have created, and may very well decide to stay because they know this environment is in good shape. Don't be surprised if you find that misquito larvae and other insects stop showing up often.

Do some research on the frogs you have in your area and ID them if you can, find out what their habits are, etc. so you wn';t have to worry about the 'What if one day it decides to eat the fish?' in the back of your mind. It's really fascinating when you know what you've got living in your backyard, so that way you know what you'll be dealing with in the future of your pond.~Angela

[fIsHy13]

Another thing is that I don't have a filter, cuz it would mean digging up the patio to get it to a power supply. Will the pond be okay if I keep it extra clean? Also, my pond always get's mud and debris and crap in it. I don't think that a net over it would look attractive, and the only way I can make sure my pond is clean is by doing a big clean 4 times a year. It's a lot of work and I would lkie to know how to keep it clean without doing a big clean quite so frequently.

[fIsHy13]

By the way, riso chan, the number of goldies in my pond that you are talking about is the most you can fit in there. I'd rather put 1, 2 at the most in my pond so they can grow their largest. And seeing as I have no filter, i'd rather keep the stocking down. But thanks anyways.

[Riso-chan]

I was actually thinking 1-2 would be best, so good thinking there.

About keeping the pond clean without filtration should be done by way of high plant density. Good ones to use are water hyacinth(sp?), water lettace, and possibly anacharis. There many others to choose from too.

Another tip to keep the pond clear, don't put any substrate or lots of rocks on the bottom. They will only collect debris and algea that will be hard to remove. Maybe just a few large rocks would be alright. I would think doing a vacuum of the pond's bottom would be adequate once a week. With a siphon, you can vacuum and be doing the water change, so grabbing one at the fish store would be a good idea.~Angela

[fIsHy13]

thanx a lot. I do have a pond siphon but it doesn't work- it amy take quite a while for me to find out what the problem is. It's doesn't matter though as i'm in no hurry- it may be offically spring but here in England it's a little cold to put fish in. so i'll leave the pond until it needs doing.

[Spicey]

Hi Most goldfish I believe are coldwater fish, but I don't know if you had some delicate variety.Koi were bred for ponds.I don't have a lot experience w/ keeping goldfish alive, haveing only tried w/ indoor fish when my kids were little, but I,ve had excellant results w/ koi in a very small outdoor pond for the last four years.

Its a pre-formed plastic 100 gallon type I bought @ loews or home depot. I bought an agricultural bucket de freezer the kind you put in a water bucket for cows at the feed store, and this year I found a fully submersible aquarium heater at petsmart. I bought one that was small enough to have the water line covered even if the pond evaporated a little. I placed it in the center inside a vase covered w/ gravel or you can attach it to the graveled filled vase on the outside w/ the little rubber suction cups. I don't like it that way because inevitable the little cups pop off and get lost especially when cleaning your pond. These just keep the pond from freezing and I winter the fish very well in it. They don't eat much in very cold weather but if you get a mild spell feed them an all weather food or food formullated for cold water.Wrong food can make them sick. My pond is on the outside of my carport where I have access to electric, but I'm considering putting a a special outdoor plug adjacent. You will want to make sure you follow directions for grounding the agricultural de-freezer.When you have a really small pond you will have to clean it of debre once in a while. I take the defreezer and heater out in the summer.

The main reason for new fish death is shock, that's why when you add new fish to any aquarium or pond you float them in the bag they came in until about ten minutes. The other reason for shock besides sudden temperture changes is sudden PH change beyond .2 and even some more delicate fish get a liitle shocky with that small change. So your next step after floating the bag for ten minutes is to open the top of the bag keeping the new fish inside still and adding small amounts of the pond the water to the bag every five to ten minutes for about 30 to 45 minutes allowing your fish to adjust to gradual changes in the Ph. If you have a new pond and the water is aged and these are the first fish, you can skip the previous step by adjusting the pond ph to match the aquarium store water ph. Your aquarium store can give you the right products to age the new pond water(bacteria starter] Remove chlorine (water conditioner) and Ph testing and adjusting kits. I always buy the largest cheapests quantities of these prducts, and these are the same proucts used for inside freshwater aquariums, as well. You will also want an algae killer and algae scruber w/ a long handle { if your have a plastic pre-form pond}, which can get out of control any time of the year, but especially in the summer months.

I like my new pond pump and filter I just bought this winter at Petsmart, it is a flat style filter about 10 x 14 that sits on the bottom of the pond w/ the pump built in and it doesn't tend to tip over like the pumps w/ the cube stlye filters that attach on the side. It also doesn't seem to clog as often, I can go 3-4 weeks without rinsing the filter material depending on how many times I've cleaned debree.When you have a really small pond you will have to clean it of debre once in a while.I changed the filter maybe about once in the last six months.I hope this info helps you to enjoy your outdoor pond. Spicey

[fIsHy13]

thanks for the info, spicey.
lovin the name!