20g options?

[wwildcats04]

thinking about turning a 20g long into a Sw tank. Right now it has a 65w 50/50 10000k PC light fixture on it. I was wondering what a few of my options may be. Also, would I need a protein skimmer for such a small tank? I like clown fish a lot, those file fish and such are neat, and I also like some of the dwarf angels. I enjoy star fish a lot, shrimp, crabs etc. I would like to try some corals if at all possible. Basically I want to do the best thing I can possibly do with that tank. I would most likely be willing to purchase another lighting fixture as well for it if need be.

[mogurnda]

There are some corals that will do allright with the light you have, although most would prefer twice that amount.

I like having a skimmer. It aerates very effectively, and keeps the water a lot cleaner.

For a tank that size, 4 smallish fish would be about as much as I would put in. A pair of clowns would be very happy there. A serpent star, some hermits, snails and shrimp would all be fine.

The main things I would encourage are about 1-2 lbs live rock and a lot of circulation. Like turning over the tank 10-20 times per hour. Powerheads, HOB filters, or a closed loop are all good to add circulation.

[wwildcats04]

what would be some smallish fish? would it be possible to put two ocelaris clowns and one of those firefish and maybe something else. And than also adding the starfish etc or would the starfish and such be included in one of my 4 smalish fish. Im prob for sure going to get another one of the same lights that I have already that way I can get most of the corals and such. As far as the skimmer goes, would one of these (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3641&N=2004+22769) work?

[mogurnda]

The clowns and firefish would be a good load. I think of inverts separately, so that they wouldn't figure into the four-or-so fish.

I have read too many threads by people who have used skilters, seaclones and prizms to recommend them. There are a few exceptions, but most people finally junk them, and therefore waste the initial investment. The CPR bakpak and coralife superskimmer have both worked well for me on small tanks, and the AquaC remora gets good reviews.

[wwildcats04]

so if it was your tank what would you put in there... I think I really want the two clowns and the firefish for sure because I really like them. What kind of annenome would be good and how do you know when your tank is good enough for them? Also... I have read that chocolate chip sea stars are no bueno which stinks because I really like them... I dont think I want the common brittle star I want something you dont see every day any suggestions, thats pretty much what I want for all of my charges. I really like those black sea urchins as well.

[mogurnda]

If it were my tank, I would go with a pair of ocellaris or percula clowns, and maybe a couple of captive-bred pajama or banggai cardinals. Firefish are great, but I have never kept them. I hope others will insert their 0.02.

Aside from the relatively dull serpent and brittle stars, there are few that will thrive in a small tank. The colorful linckia and fromia have a tendency to melt down, and generally need a lot more space to graze. I like urchins, and they are easy to keep in large tanks, but may bulldoze too much and not find enough food in a small tank.

I would skip the anemone for the first 6 months to a year that you are keeping the tank. It's not just that the tank needs to be ready, but you need to get a good feel for how to manage the tank without drastic changes. The clowns will be quite happy without an anemone.

[wwildcats04]

So you would recomend against one of those black urchins for my tank. It has a pretty large foot print 30"X12". I understand what your saying though... I guess I'll have to get one of those brite red serpent stars or something. That stinks about waiting for the annenome but your right, I cant jump the gun. I have found a website, saltwaterfish.com and realize they ship for free! There are a couple of inverts on there that I really like. I like the porcelain, boxing, and hawaiian strawberry crabs. would they be okay or no? Also, how are cucumbers and nudibranches? There is a cool snail called a queen conch as well. The problem with that website is they do not really give a whole lot of info about their specimens unlike drfostersmith.com.

[ragc]

I keep a pencil urchin in my 10 gallon tank...has been happy for as long as I've had it, which is 6 months...finds plenty of stuff to eat (based on the large amount he excretes not too daintily).

[mogurnda]

I would hold off one the urchin, but don't feel that strongly about it. You can always throw in some nori.

Porcelain crabs: I have had two species, both have been ideal inhabitants. They scavenge and filter feed. I haven't tried the brightly colored ones that live in anemones, and don't know how well they do on their own.

Boxing crabs: My understanding is that they lose their anemones after they molt, and don't do well. Never tried them, though.

The strawberry crab looks like a troublemaker, but I know nothing about it. Cucumbers can do OK, depending on the species, and how much food they get. Very few species of nudis will survive in an aquarium. They are specialist feeders, and we aquarists can rarely provide the right food. The conch will be a good sand sifter, but will outgrow the tank.

Wow, what a downer I can be.

[wwildcats04]

Im going to go cry myself to sleep

[wwildcats04]

there has been a change of plans I just purchased a 75g with 80lbs of live sand, a stand, 48" PC lighting 4X65w. Best news is, I paid $70 for it. I still want to do the same basic operation. such as corals and such. what skimmer do you recomend and how many lbs of live rock am I going to need since i have live sand already. Now what kind of fish would be suggested? I still want to do little guys. I know Im going to need a skimmer and eventually an RO unit but Im going to wait a few months for the latter. I dont need RO when all I have is FOWLR do I? cuz thats all I plan on until three months when my discount kicks in. I also notice a lot of people do a sump or refugium that they put all the filtering stuff in how do one of these work? Am I goint to need a filtter other than the skimmer still or is that basically what live rock/sand is for?

[fish addict]

It sounds like you have moved past the 20g, but if you are still wanting ideas here is what I have in mine: 2 ocellaris clowns, 1 firefish goby, 1 six line wrasse, 1 camel shrimp, 2 peppermint shrimp, about a dozen hermits and a few turbo snails. The tank has about 30 lbs live rock and a 2" live sand/ CC substrate. I have 2 aquaclear powerfilters and 2 powerheads for max flow. Instead of the traditional filter media for the aquaclears I have added a 1/2" CC base with a few chunks of live rock (makeshift fuges). The system and inhabitants are happy and healthy.

[wwildcats04]

back to plan A... wanna start small

[Blinky]

So you're back to the 20g? Honestly, if you can swing it I'd start with the larger tank. My first SW tank was my 14g, which I quickly upgraded to a 30g. Then I converted my 65g and it's just silly how much easier it is to look after - the 30g is much more finicky in terms of chemistry. I can go days without topping off the 65g, but one day without topping up the 30g makes a noticable difference. I've got a little 5.5g going as well, and need to top it off morning and night to avoid big swings in salinity. The smaller the tank, the more TLC it's going to need and the less you can pack into it, but a 20g is a nice size if you can keep it to 3, maybe 4 fish and get a decent skimmer.

I use a Remora on my 30g, it's a nice little skimmer. I started with a Prizm, which is now on the 65g, and it didn't do nearly as good a job (though it pulls out some nasty skimmate on the bigger tank, I leave it alone a lot more which seems to help). I've also got a modded AquaClear 70 filter that I use as a refugium. Basically I installed a baffle and put a light over it, and use it to grow Chaetomorpha. It really helps keep NO3 and PO4 in check. :)

You're right when you say the rock and sand are your bio filter, though having a traditional filter doesn't hurt. I find it really helpful to have a canister (65g) and a HOB (30g) around for things like carbon, PhosGuard, LR rubble, as well as for the circulation. Regardless of other filters or live sand, you'll want around 1-2lbs/gallon of LR, depending on how dense it is. I prefer lighter, more porous rock (which not only 'filters' better, but also takes up more space than dense rock), and don't like to stuff a tank with rock, so I keep around a pound per gallon and find it's enough.

An RO unit can be essential if your tap water is unsuitable, but you may not need it. Test your tap water for ammonia (will be present if there are chloramines rather than just straight chlorine in your water), nitrates and phosphates. If you find these in significant quantities I'd find another source of water - you don't have to buy an RO unit, you could get distilled from the grocery store or WalMart. Water changes are cheap on little tanks, not so much if we're talking about the 75g.

ADD--> fire fish are neat, but make sure you have a lid - they're jumpers. Also consider one of the tiny pygmy angels (Centropyge argi or C. flavicauda, maybe a flameback but they're pricey), a clown goby, or maybe a shrimp/goby combo - a tiger pistol shrimp and a yasha hase goby would be fun in a 20g. Try to avoid fish that want lots of room to run, since it's a small tank. Clowns are a good choice, they don't do a lot of swimming about.

[wwildcats04]

Thanks blinky... I work at a LFS and a lot of the guys there are SW gurus. They are going to help me to build a wet dry out of a 10g. I am going to order my over flow kit from aquatraders.com same with my skimmer, its basically the same thing as a bakpack or w/e. apparently they do a nicejob. I also may be putting a deep sand bed in the wet dry in a little part somehow w/ a goldfish bowl, I dont really know but they seem to have an idea? and I get 75% off all live stuff so price isnt much of a factor. Im deffinetly looking at firefish, one or two ocelaris clowns (I'd rather have a maroon but must please the gf, I may get one black and the other normal) Im going to have 5.5 WPG w/ a 50/50 PC bulb and I have gotten aragonite sand and Im going to get about a lb of live sand. What kind of live rock have you noticed is more porus? is it fiji? I love inverts so Im most likely going to go crazy with those.

[Blinky]

Tonga Kaelini tends to be porous, light and sometimes branchy. Fiji is denser from what I've seen, with small holes, but you can get some gorgeous pieces. My favourite piece is a piece of Fiji that came with zoanthids, a protopalythoa, and a mussid or favites type coral (still recovering from being 90% dead, so hard to get an ID yet). I've got some Micronesian rock that's very odd, it's dense and heavy but has HUGE holes that go all the way through the rock, like catacombs. The fish seem to love it, but I doubt it's as useful as Kaelini as a biofilter. Choose what appeals to you, we all have different tastes and all live rock is good rock IMHO :)

[wwildcats04]

Alright, things are finally starting to get moving. I emptied out my 20g and put the previous inhabitants into my 10g (just a pair of dwarf cichlids that used to be in a 10g). I need to go find my stand for a 20 long which is in the household somewhere I jsu cant remember where. I purchased a 30# bag of aragonite and Im going to get a pound or so of live sand. Sunday Im night Im going to work on getting it all set up. My friends and I are going to create a wet/dry out of a 10g aquarium but not until it has been set up a little while because of funding. Im planning on ordering most of my products from aquatraders.com. the skimmer (http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=207)
One of these, not sure which one yet for m over-flow (http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=36)
Also do you think 6.5wpg is okay or do I need 9.75 wpg. I dont want anything to terribly hard yet even though I do want a clam real bad but prob should save that for later.