My Boesemani Fry, Snails, and Pics

[chefkeith]

Over the last few months I've stop dosing ferts, turned down the CO2, and decreased the lighting cycles. I’ve let algae take hold of my tanks. I let this happen because I'm trying to grow out a rare sub-species of juvi Bristlenose Pleco’s that I acquired. Over this time, I've come to realize that Boesemani Rainbowfish are algae eaters too. They nibble at all sorts of algae, like BGA, Beard, and Hair algae.
About 7-8 weeks ago, to my great surprise, I found some Boesemani fry in one of my snail tanks. (I put plant trimmings from the main tanks into the snail tanks about every other week). The fry have grown out quite nicely since then. They are almost an inch long now.
Today, I was doing some maintenance in a different snail tank and I discovered more fry. Then I looked in one of my pro-algae main tanks and I find even more Boesemani fry. I can’t believe this. I’m surprised that the adult Boesemani’s haven’t eaten them. Should I move these fry to my snail tanks with the other fry?

I was actually thinking about busting my algae soon, but I’m really starting to like the natural look and softness the algae gives the tanks. My Boesemani and Bristlenoses sure do love all the extra algae.

Here’s a pic of the Boesemani fry-
A few days old-
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/1weekoldfry.jpg
A few days old- about 10x enlarged
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/fry1.jpg
8 weeks old
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/IMG_1402.jpg


Another thing that I’ve discovered during this period of time is that there is now a huge colony of (unidentified) minuscule snails in my pro-algae tanks. The snails only come out when the lights are off. They burrow into small cracks in the driftwood and into the gravel. My clown loaches don’t seem to bother them. The largest are only about 1/8” big. They look just like trapdoor snails, but I think they are too small to that kind.
Here’s a pic of the unidentified snails-
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/IMG_1372.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/unknownsnails3.jpg
Here's a pic of a trapdoor snail-
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/trapdoorsnail.jpg

Anybody know what they are?

[Roan Art]

That's wonderful!

If there are places to hide, the Boes won't eat find them to eat them. I had platy babies survive my Boe tank, just barely.

As for the Boes eating algae -- we were just talking about that before the board went down, remember? You lost a school of dwarf neons and posted the link to Dave Wilson's article. I DID get in contact with Dave and OH! I have a follow up to his article for you to read . . . I'll get it and post it after this.

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Wilson_Rainbowfish_Problems.html

Those look like MTS babies.

Lemme go find the email Dave sent.

Roan

[Roan Art]

Here's his reply:
------------------------
From: Dave Wilson <aqua.green@...>
Date: Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:34 pm
Subject: Re: [r_m_l] Rainbowfish Diets

Hello Eileen,

Don’t apologise.

I wrote that many years ago for the Canberra Aquarium Society journal when I lived down south and had to drive for days to get into some good native fish collecting, now I live in a place where there are black banded rainbowfish and spotted blue-eyes in the drains during the wet season. It was aimed at a few Cichlid keepers that were in the same aquarium club who bred their rainbows and fed them tons of beef heart to make them grow quickly. Their fish looked grotesque when compared with wild rainbows. They had lost their colour and that nice slim look that is common in a fish that has had to work hard for every meal in its natural environment.

I still collect rainbows here across the top of oz and notice that many poop out strings of processed algae when put in the bucket. I still conclude they have a good percentage of algae in their diet. If you get / scrape some fluffy algae off a hard surface you will also notice it is full of other little monsters crawling around when viewed under a good dissecting microscope. Their mouths are designed to scrape algae off hard surfaces. If you feed a rainbow all beef heart and other high protein meaty diets it will not look like a wild rainbow you collected but turn into a little football full of fat around its internal organs.

I have never collected rainbowfish in New Guinea but have noted from the drawings in Allen & Cross (1982) “Rainbowfishes of Australia and New Guinea” that the New Guinea species also have teeth that project outwards on the outer part of their mouths suggesting they scrape algae also. Perhaps someone who has collected in New Guinea can comment on wether the species from there also poop out processed algae when put in a bucket.

There are some good home made rainbowfish fish food recipes in Ray Leggett’s book Keeping Australian native fishes for aquariums. I think it is still available from the ANGFA bookshop. Adrian Tappin will have some good info on feeding rainbows correctly on his web site. Now I grow my rainbows in 5000 litre ponds and use fertilisation schedules to produce algae and plankton. They grow quickly and look like their wild brothers and sisters.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
Dave in Howard Springs where the monsoon is upon us.
--------------------------

Roan

[abraham]

Chef,

Very cool discovery!!!

Great artical Roan, thanks for posting the link.

Abraham

[chefkeith]

Thanks Roan.

Just to be safe, I moved the fry from the big tank to the snail tank with the other small fry.

Until Today I wasn't positive that the 1st batch of Fry were Boesemani, but this 2nd batch of fry pretty much proves to me that they are Boesemani. I couldn't find any pictures of rainbowfish fry anywhere on the net or in any books.

[Roan Art]

Good idea, moving them.

Here:

http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Mboesemani.html

The last pic on that page looks exactly like the top one in your 8 week old pic

Roan

[Leopardess]

Not to be gross or anything, but it's relevant:

My boesmani regularly poop out largely unprocessed algae:) Large hunks of it at a time. In fact, I believe I have a photo somewhere. I'm off to look.

[Leopardess]

Aha. Lest anyone ever doubt they do munch on algae:

Taken 3-14-05 (so almost a year ago). Please forgive the quality, I never expected to share it.

http://members.aol.com/chris420529/boesmanialgae.JPG

[chefkeith]

Thanks for that link Roan. That pic is about spot on.

I just took some pics of the new fry. I'll post some if any turned out. I think some of the fry are less than a day old.

[chefkeith]

good pic leopardess. thanks for sharing. Getting a good shot is a tough task. I just took 50 pics of the new fry and not 1 of them is all that good; the fry are just too small and move too quickly. hmmm. Perhaps if I unplugged the filter...hmmm. I'll give it another go.

[chefkeith]

This is the best pic I got. The fry are too small to see clearly.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/newfry1.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/newfry3.jpg

Here's an enlargement-
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c49/chefkeith/newfry4.jpg

[Roan Art]

Awwwwwwwwwww! So cute!

Can't wait until I see some Boe fry swimming around like that.

Roan

[Roan Art]

Aha. Lest anyone ever doubt they do munch on algae:

Taken 3-14-05 (so almost a year ago). Please forgive the quality, I never expected to share it.I've never seen my Boes eat algae. Either I have the laziest fish on the planet or I overfeed them so much they just don't bother.

I've seen them eat zucchini. At first I thought they were biting and attacking my clown loaches, but then I realized that they were grabbing the pieces of zucchini that flew out of the clown's mouths. Pretty neat to watch two totally different types of fish get along like that :)

Roan

[Leopardess]

That's neat, roan. Last night I watched as my new big ramshorn snail was eating a whole shrimp pellet (which was meant for the frogs) and the frogs came over and were eating it right out of the poor snail's foot! Hehe.

As for the boesmani's, I only rarely actually see them eating it; I can usually just tell because I see it on its way out. Maybe it's an acquired taste:)

[wesleydnunder]

Could it be a seasonal diet in the dry season. I read one of Jack Wattley's accounts of a discus collection trip during the dry season. It said in the wild their primary food is a type of freshwater pod or shrimp ( don't remember which ). During the dry season, however, when discus wound up in land locked pools due to evaporation and were cut off from the main streams and rivers they ate almost exclusively algae when all the pods were gone. Their stomachs were full of it.

Mark

[chefkeith]

Perhaps the algae growth and algae eating are stimulating the Boesemani to breed. I never got any Boesemani offspring before this wave of algae growth.

[Roan Art]

Hrm, dunno about that. My Boe tank is crammed with algae :rolleyes: still and they've been as usual. How about giving us a run down on your water parameters? Epsecially pH, GH and KH. That might offer a clue.

Roan

[chefkeith]

CO2 pH controlled- 6.9 to 7.1
kh- 5
gh-9
temp- 78-80F

Really, I need do some back tracking. I keep forgeting about other factors. I'll try to make a timeline later on.

[Roan Art]

CO2 pH controlled- 6.9 to 7.1
kh- 5
gh-9
temp- 78-80F

Really, I need do some back tracking. I keep forgeting about other factors. I'll try to make a timeline later on.
That would be great!

Oh, cool, your parameters aren't far from mine. With a little tweaking I can match easy:

CO2 6.8-7.4 (not controlled, have controller have not installed yet)
KH 4
GH 7
Temp 77*

Hey, I just thought of something -- what did you stop dosing for the plants? Where you dosing Mg? Cause that will bring up the GH big time and that may have been a factor in this. When I dosed Mg my GH was up to 17-21. I cut it out for a while to get a handle on the nitrate/phosphates problem.

Roan

[chefkeith]

I hope this makes some sense-

Pre-December observations from pictures- Good plant growth. Some BGA on glass and driftwood.

Routine-
Weekly 20% water changes. Monthly canister filter cleanings. Monthly Plant Trimmings.
Bi Weekly Dosing- 1 Tbls Mg (Epsom Salt), 1 Tbls of KNO3, 15 ml’s of Tropica Mastergrow. I get lazy with this plan sometimes.

Normally I don’t record my water parameters. (I should start though)

Main tanks –
Water Temp- 80-84F
pH - 6.8- 7.0.
Kh - 5.
Gh - I usually don’t check.
Nitrate -10 ppm
PO4- I usually don’t check.

Tap Water-
pH- 7.4
Kh- 4-5 degrees
Gh- 9-10 degrees
Nitrate- 5ppm
PO4- Atleast 2.0 ppm.

I never check the water parameters in my snail tanks. For the snail tanks I do weekly 50% water changes and clean the filter sponges.


Timeline -

On Dec. 4th. Trimmed plants. 20%, 75g, water change. Added Ferts. Put trimmings in snail tanks.
Later that day, I purchased 13 juvi Bristlenose Pleco’s from a local breeder and put 12 of them in my 6g snail tank. 1 Bristlenose died on the way home.
The breeder also gave me an adult male Boesemani. I put the Boesemani and the entire fish bags contents into my 10g snail tank.

On Dec. 5th, 3 more of the juvi Bristlenoses died. I then moved the juvi Bristlenoses to my main planted tanks because I thought they'd do better.

On Dec. 11th, 20% water change. Added Ferts. Cleaned canister filters.
I found 4 fry in the 10g snail tank with the adult male Boesemani. To help save the fry, I moved the adult male Boesemani to my main tanks. Fry are mystery to me. I don’t know what they are or where they came from. I thought the fry probably came from the fish bag from the local breeder.

Water parameters for main tanks that were recorded that day-
pH controller set to- 6.8 – 7.0
kh- 5
gh- 9-10


On Dec 13th. I started to add salt (16 cups total over a 3 day period) to the main tanks because my clown loaches were flashing. I didn’t want to take any chances on an ich outbreak.

During the week, the salt started to melt down some of my plants, mostly just the Crypts.

Dec 18th, Removed plant debris. 10% water change. Added 1 cup of salt.
I stopped dosing ferts. Clowns are still flashing, but not as much as before.

Dec. 20th. Nitrates hit 0. Hair Algae is forming on many of the plants.
Decreased lighting / CO2

Dec 25th. Removed plant debris. 10% water change. Added 1 cup of salt.

Jan 1. Removed plant debris. 10% water change. Added 1 cup of salt.
Clown loach flashing has ceased.

Jan. 8th 40%, 150g, water change. Ended salt treatment.

Jan 15. 20% water change. Cleaned canister filters.

Jan 22. 40% water change.

Jan 29. City done work on water main. Tap water was cloudy, so I skipped weekly water change. Trimmed plants. Put trimmings in snail tanks.

Feb 4th. Cleaned Filters on snail tanks. Found 3 fry in 15g snail tank, and then found 3 more fry in 85g planted tank.

Current water parameters in main tanks are-
Temp 78-80F
pH- 6.9 – 7.1
kh 4-5
gh 9

What does this all mean? I don’t know yet.