Hair Algae!

[imhandy2]

What is the best Algae eater for hair algae.

Thanks,

Terry.

[John N.]

I believe some Mollies eat hair algae. But it's more effective if you solve the algae problem.

-John N.

[GreenHephaestus]

So I have been gaining a steady build up of hair algae myself, and I havn't seen real advice on how to get rid of it other than temporarily lowering the watts per gallon, removing the algea by hand, and then restoring the original lighting wattage.

I have heard that flying floxes and cherry shrimp will eat hair algae, but that is on advice from a flakey pet store guy. Other people have posted about hair algae too, what can you do to get rid of it. Lowering the lighting and cleaning wouldn't seem to be a perminate solution...?

My hair algea (what I assume to be hair algae) is long single greyish white strands which seem to favor the leaves of only half the plants in my tank while the others are un covered. My java moss and amazons appear to be the main targets...how can i get that stuff of my java moss or better yet how can i get that stuff out of my tank completely? I'll get an updated post with my water perameters if that is part of the problem.

Those of you who have encountered this type of algae before and now have a clean thank, tell me, what do you do to preserve hair algaeless conditions?

[doughsing]

Cherry shrimp work, but you need quite a few of them to reduce it any noticeable amount. Most of my algae are cleaned by snails (Japanese Trapdoor Snails Viviparus sp.).

[valleyvampiress]

I'm not sure if this would work on hair algae, but many people (including myself) have used Flourish Excel to get rid of BBA. It does a good job. On the Seachem site, they even admit that it is a unintentional perk to their product.

I believe John N. is right though, you should probably find the source of why algae is growing in the first place. Usually it leads to a lack of a specific nutrient or low CO2 levels.

PS
John, your CR's beautiful.

[imhandy2]

I had been using the recomended dosage of excel even before I got the hair algae problem. I origonally got it from what I believe is when I picked up this red lotus at a old lfs I used to frequent years ago. It had hair algae but it was so cheap I couldn't help myself, so I manually cleaned it then dipped it in a bleach solution 17:1 for 2 min. I was confident it would kill it, :eek: now I have hair algae!! I had been upping my Fe(TE) from 0.1 to 0.25 to try to help the condition of the sords. I had since yanked out my little sords in the pic and have been manually cleaning/removing any trace of it. But like my bba they are both wearing me out :coffee: and I am so close to putting my fish in a holding tank and trashing all my plants and flourite and bleaching the sh*t out of everything and starting from scratch.


My water parameters are:
Fe.....0.25
N03......20
P...........3
Ph.......6.6
C02......38 (injected)
wc 50% weekly

Lighting.....3.5wpg @ 12 hours (130w/12 hours & 130w/6 hours)


Any help would be great!!

Terry.



http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/imhandy2/Aquaria/hairalgae1.jpg

[Roan Art]

Try dropping your iron down to .1

http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm

I get .2 out of the tap and was getting hair algae. I don't dose for iron anymore and the algae is much less. I don't mind a bit of it, I think it makes the tank look more natural.

Also, is that P phosphates? If so, 3 is really high IMO and could account for the BBA problem you are having.

Roan

[djlen]

I agree with Roan on the Fe. I don't dose any extra Fe and have never seen the need.
I also agree with her assessment of the P. I would bring it down to 2.0 and the N down to 1.5 and see how the plants/algae react.
I don't know of any correlation between nutrients and BBA however. That's just a matter of keeping the CO2 where it is, keeping the tank as clean as possible and continuing the use of Excel. BBA is tough.
Can you send us an updated shot of the overall on the tank?

Len

[imhandy2]

Roan, the problem being is that I had the hair algae even while my parameters were Fe-.1 , N-20, P-1 and still had the hair and as len knows, the bba. I will drop my Fe to .1 again and my P down to 2.

Len you mentioned to bring the N down to 1.5, is that a typo?
The reason why my P was at 3, is that I acidentally overdosed and later on that day there was serious pearling going on with everything.

The added opinions are good.

thanks,

Terry.

[Blinky]

Hey Terry, I can't believe you're still dealing with this stuff! My sympathies, glad you haven't given up yet.

I agree with lowering the Fe, keeping PO4 at 2. Have you tried Amano shrimp? If they're hungry they'll eat it. Also are you still dosing Excel and did you try double dosing it for a while? I tried that when I had a HA problem way back when and found that the HA pretty quickly turned reddish, then white, and died. That, coupled with keeping things as stable as possible and using shrimp kept it to a minimum.

[happychem]

You say that you accidentally added too much PO4 and the result was mad pearling?\

Let's verify this than. Decrease PO4 to 1.5-2, keep NO3 at 20 ppm. Observe plants, give it a week, be patient. If there is a benefit to the higher PO4 level, the detriments of cutting back probably won't be immediately noticeable as the plants use stored nutrients.

If there's a clear decrease in pearling or any signs of PO4 deficiency, increase back to 3 ppm. Again, watch for signs of improvement, but be very skeptical about it and be honest with yourself (it's not easy!). It's difficult to detect a subtle difference, and if you're really wanting it, you could be tricking yourself, so only accept an obvious improvement, which should only take a few days or less to show. If there's no obvious improvement, return to the 1.5-2 ppm range.

With all respect to Chuck Gadd, I'm not sold on iron causing hair algae. At least not in my tanks. I've pushed trace/iron dosing well above "necessary" levels without signs of algae. Conversely, I have observed clear deficiencies when I don't dose, so I guess this is a voice in favour of iron supplementation. That said, I'm not very trusting or iron test kits - or hobby kits in general - so bear in mind that the values reported are just ballpark figures unless you've calibrated them against a standard.

Ultimately, the way that I beat this algae was with careful nutrient control and a 4 day blackout. The blackout was followed by a careful monitoring of nutrient levels, although now I'm slack on testing again, but no new hair algae. :D

[Roan Art]

With all respect to Chuck Gadd, I'm not sold on iron causing hair algae. At least not in my tanks. I've pushed trace/iron dosing well above "necessary" levels without signs of algae. Conversely, I have observed clear deficiencies when I don't dose, so I guess this is a voice in favour of iron supplementation. That said, I'm not very trusting or iron test kits - or hobby kits in general - so bear in mind that the values reported are just ballpark figures unless you've calibrated them against a standard.Point noted :) I don't use the values, myself, but an average of the values. I mean I run tests and use the most consistant number or an average of all the numbers, say ".2" for example, and assign that number to that particular tank or tap. Doesn't mean I have .2ppm iron, just that it's 2 SOMETHING :) Anyhow, if a tank tests at .2 after a water change and then .1 a few days later, then it has used up some of the "2". So while the initial value may be wrong, there is definitely some usage there and that's what I want to know :) Does this make sense?

Anyhow, I'm at .2 out of the tap and I do have hair algae. It got worse when I dosed Fe and less when I did not dose Fe. After 3 days my tanks usually test at .1 Fe, so half of it is being consumed by something :) I suspect the plants use up .5 and the algae whatever they can get. I've not let my tanks go without a water change longer than 4 days (if I can help it) so I don't know if the Fe bottoms out or not.

Some day I'd like to try leaving it for another 3 or 4 days. I suspect that my tanks would do best (no real hair algae) if it was .1 from the water change.

Hrm.
Roan

[Sully]

i have no hope of ever becoming as knowledgeable or conversant as Tom in the intricacies of a planted tank and water chemistry. I think he retained more out of chem than I learned--lol. I have about the planted tank over the years. Finally went into it a couple of months ago. (Where are the old days of fishkeeping--i never needed to worry about anything but the the things that swim.) I am not the best person to offer an opinion about algae...but i cannot help myself...especially since i saw the iton comment.

Just a purely anecdotal note. I dosed iron on sunday in an overgrown 75 (have not trimmed the weeds in a week and a half). I was hoping to see a bit more red in some crypt and radican sword. Okay, in the telenthera and ludwigia too. Instead i got hair. Not a lot--just a little. It was the first time I had dosed iron as a stand alone additive. I think it was my last.


Link to overgrown 75 (http://www.tropicalfishgallery.com/photo-gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1835&fullsize=1 ). I actualy removed 6 leaves from the crypt last night instead of being patient and solving the issue of hair.

[djlen]

That's the reason I asked you for an updated picture. I wanted to see how/if your plant mass has increased. When you do your mid-week test, do you find that the plants are using N or P or both?
It's great to have high N and P values IF the plants use them. If there is an over abundance or imbalance the algae will use the overage.
It's funny how different tanks react to different tweaks. My tanks are loaded with Cryptocoryne and every time I've dosed extra Fe I've had algae issues. They just seem to be happy with what they get from the Flourite and the Trace Mix.

Len

[Jay]

I agree with Len, admittedly it is anecdotal, but fluorite and traces seem do do it for my Fe needs.

Terry..you might want to think about increasing your CO2 a little at the same time cutting the light period back a little and see if you start to see a withdraw of the Hair. When all else seems to be correct, low or inconsistent CO2 is usually the problem.

My CO2 by the KH pH charts is 80ppm. I don't believe that (another topic sometime), there is no fish stress, weeds are growing great, and no algae. Well...I trim a few leaves every week :)

Jay

[crabguy]

i recently had a bba bloom in my 29gal. i bought 3 rosy barbs and in a weeks time it was 99% gone.

[imhandy2]

Here is a recent pic of my tank mass, bba and hair Algae.
There is alot of different ideas in this thread.
As of tonight My water parameters are:
P......2 I haven't dosed in a 3 days.
Fe....0.2 and I haven't dosed in 4 days.
N......still 20 and my water change is due tomorrow(haven't dosed since last Friday).

There dosn't seem to be any consumption of N, maybe I should add some N hogs?

Thank you everyone for your responses,

Terry.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/imhandy2/Aquaria/75g-feb9.jpg



http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/imhandy2/Aquaria/bba-feb9.jpg



http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e260/imhandy2/Aquaria/HA1-feb9.jpg

[Jay]

No N consumption points to the plants being limited in some way. Your plant mass is really not high and you seem to have reached a draw between the plants and algae. I still reccomend cutting back on your light hours, and increasing your CO2 level.

It looks like BBA has a good foothold in your tank.
BBA is tough, it requires hard work and a multi front attack. You need to get as much out of the tank as you can, sterilize (bleach) equipment and decorations, plants dipped in bleach can be done, I wouldn't, so aggressive pruning is the way. I would add a lot more cheap fast growing stem plants and get the plant bio mass advantage shifted over to the plants.

Bump your CO2 up you are not injecting enough if BBA is being aggressive, prune and preen. It takes about two weeks to win.

Hair algae will die back with higher CO2 levels and will have a difficult time with 2x Excel dosing. But again you must do all you can to remove it from the tank and plants first.

Keep in mind that algae will fight back by producing spores from 10 minutes to an hour after you bother it. Water changes are important after you
attack it.

Then you have to give some thought to keeping the advantage on the plant side.

Just my 2 cents

Jay

[imhandy2]

No N consumption points to the plants being limited in some way. Your plant mass is really not high and you seem to have reached a draw between the plants and algae. I still reccomend cutting back on your light hours, and increasing your CO2 level.

It looks like BBA has a good foothold in your tank.
BBA is tough, it requires hard work and a multi front attack. You need to get as much out of the tank as you can, sterilize (bleach) equipment and decorations, plants dipped in bleach can be done, I wouldn't, so aggressive pruning is the way. I would add a lot more cheap fast growing stem plants and get the plant bio mass advantage shifted over to the plants.

Bump your CO2 up you are not injecting enough if BBA is being aggressive, prune and preen. It takes about two weeks to win.

Hair algae will die back with higher CO2 levels and will have a difficult time with 2x Excel dosing. But again you must do all you can to remove it from the tank and plants first.

Keep in mind that algae will fight back by producing spores from 10 minutes to an hour after you bother it. Water changes are important after you
attack it.

Then you have to give some thought to keeping the advantage on the plant side.

Just my 2 cents

Jay


Jay, in regards to increasing my plant mass, I always toil with what to add. Not crazy about stems because they are messy with all the strands(Roots) hanging off the stem, I am not crazy about the water sprite(it's a love hate relationship) in the center back of my tank. I have added today some Monosolenium tenerum on my center rock and a Cladophora aegagropila. I just don't want to add just anything, any suggestions.

Actually I have just completed my wc and have dosed 2x excel, kno3 and p04. I brought my P to 1.5-2, N to 20 and left my Fe(TE) at 0.1. I checked my KH and it is up to 7(?) which gives me 53ppm of C02, if I increase it, what should I increase it to?

Thanks,

Terry.

[Jay]

It gives you 53ppm if your pH is 6.4 and your KH is 7 and the CO2 is being injected. We can talk in another thread about believing CO2 levels based on pH KH testing and charts. :)

IME, If bba is growing, spreading and being agressive you are not injecting enough CO2.

We are talking short term here on the plants (cheap fast stems) if you are going to defeat bba and hair algae you are going to have to be agressive for a while make some aesthetic compromises, beat the stuff, get the tank settled, and then work on your scape. 2 to 4 weeks tops.

Jay

[imhandy2]

It gives you 53ppm if your pH is 6.4 and your KH is 7 and the CO2 is being injected. We can talk in another thread about believing CO2 levels based on pH KH testing and charts. :)

IME, If bba is growing, spreading and being agressive you are not injecting enough CO2.

Jay


Jay, with a Ph of 6.6 and a KH of 7, according to chucks calculator that gives me 53ppm of C02. I have been double dosing excel and I dropped my Ph from 6.6 to 6.5 which gives me 66ppm of C02. It has been almost a week and my hair algae has turned red then white and now has discinigrated :dance: . I have lost a 3 corys but everyone else seem ok, they are eating and no sighns of C02 poisining.

I have added almost a week now, 3 hygro poly, one hornwort and one Limnophila. They are starting to kick in but still not enough for my N to drop from 20. My BBA is still thriving on my substrate and I am still removing all affected. I will give the double dose of excel a few days more and see how it affects the BBA. If I drop my Ph lower again from 6.5 to 6.4 to give me 84ppm of C02 and still double dose the excel, how safe is that for my fish?


Thanks,

Terry.

[Roan Art]

It gives you 53ppm if your pH is 6.4 and your KH is 7 and the CO2 is being injected. We can talk in another thread about believing CO2 levels based on pH KH testing and charts. :) Read about this with great interest on the other sites and would love you guys to start a discussion about it.

Roan

[imhandy2]

Me too.

[Jay]

Terry...

I am not advocating that your CO2 level be at 85ppm to defeat the algae, I am saying that I can crank my C02 up, while watching for fish stress, and if I test I see a big number. It is the test result I am skeptical of. Does that make sense to you.

I am also skeptical that a hobby test kit will give you accurate uptake readings.

The existing BBA has to go, pick, prune vacuum. Hard work stay with it. Is it growing and spreading? Do you have good circulation around the whole tank. Co2 misting with good circulation helps.

Sounds like the hair algae is on the ropes. :)

Jay

[imhandy2]

I have a fluval 304 at one end and a eheim 2227 wet/dry at the other end(the air vent on the wet/dry is capped and is operating as a standard canister filter). My C02 reactor is a Aqua Medic (http://www.bigalsonline.ca/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19223;category_id=2873) with a 201 powerhead running it. I want to get a different C02 reactor, the Aqua medic 1000 (http://www.ottawaaquatics.com/item1429.htm) I believe would have better circulation plus it is inline and less equipment in the tank.

Terry.

[loaches r cool]

Pardon me not being an algae expert but is this hair algea or what?


http://tristan.homelinux.net/fish/forum/algae.JPG

I had an outbreak of this stuff something fierce... back in spring/summer last year. My Dojo's loved hanging out in it. I tried almost everything... lowered light duration, cut back on fertalizers, did some water changes, bought a phosphate pillow, bought a bunch of SAE's, etc... It all helped but the infamous algae continued. I tried "algae destroyer advanced" and that helped too, but my java moss still wanted to sprout out with the stuff. I ended up removing all the java moss in my tank and that particular type of algae hasnt shown itself since.

[GreenHephaestus]

yea...that looks like the stuff that was growing in my tank. Same color, a little less vascular though...maybe my hair algae isn't as developed. I am keen on tryin out the rosey barbs since they supposedly take care of this kind of algae, if it is in face hair algae.

[reiverix]

The algae in the photo looks similar to the staghorn algae I had when I first set up my 75g. Mine was a little darker in color. I had it on my plants, rocks, substrate, wood and glass. It was removed by spending three days cleaning up different sections of the tank. Anything covered with the algae was bleached or thrown away.

[imhandy2]

My Hair algae is no more. My BBA is on the run.

[djlen]

Terry, you have no idea how glad I'm sure everyone is to here that. :) :) :)
Now don't slack off. Keep up with your regimen of dosing, cleaning etc. Keep using the excel.
Pat yourself on the back. You deserve it.

Len

[imhandy2]

Terry, you have no idea how glad I'm sure everyone is to here that. :) :) :)
Now don't slack off. Keep up with your regimen of dosing, cleaning etc. Keep using the excel.
Pat yourself on the back. You deserve it.

Len

Thanks Len,
I have stopped double dosing excel but have kept my Ph at 6.4 which gives me 84ppm of Co2, I am going to keep that going as long as I can without knocking off any fish in the process. My plant mass is increasing but over a week period my N has remained at 20. I have just completed my weekly 50% wc and dosed to reset my parameters. As my Gloss is filling in, it is getting harder to pick the BBA affected gravel out, but I am at it ever day or second day.

Len, once again thanks for all your help!! :) :)


Terry.