totally desperate with ickky ich - 7wks+

[chicken2]

i bet you are all sick of us newbies and questions about icky ich - but here is another one!
i introduced 3 clown loach into my 240ltr tank 21st dec and as no surprise to you all out there little white spots appeared on their tails -

i have been medicating EVERY 2 DAYS since then - now this is an awful long time i know - but i have been going to a reputable aquaria outlet in b'ham and have been told to continue treatment no matter how long it takes to clear assuring me that it is ich and not some other 'thing' - the treatment they advised is ws3 and to keep the tank in the dark for 3 days at a time so as not to kill off my plants.
my neons, angles, danios show spots - then clear - then spots again I'M GOING MAD TRYING TO CLEAR IT.
I have trawled through your articles and am now going to try the salt/heat treatment and my only query is should i stop the green medication?

[Roan Art]

YES, stop the green medication :)

Follow the ich article to a "T" and you will be ich-less.

As for your reputable aquaria place, darkening the tank is for treating velvet, not ich. That won't affect ich at all. It's possible they told you to do that to make sure it wasn't velvet, however it's very easy to tell the difference between ich and velvet.

As for your current course of medication -- most medications require daily treatments and regardless of what the bottle says, you MUST treat for 7 days minimum or the ich will survive in the substrate and reinfest your fish.

Roan

[mduros]

When I first set up my tank, I had 5 albino glolight tetras develop ich. I was told to medicate, but they also asked me if I had enough aeration. I have a UGF and changed one of the powerheads to an air jet, raised the temperature of the tank to about 80 degrees f, and those fish were ich free the next day. Several months later, I still have those 5 fish. That is what I was told to do and it seemed to work.
Good luck,
Mary.

[chicken2]

many thanks for your relpies - being new to this computer/forum game I wasn't too confident in what I was doing. Just to confirm that I have added extra aeration and I don't have charcoal etc -so fingers crossed this will work.
I never had this problem in my old tank, I have gone up from120ltr to 240ltr and it is heartbreaking to see fish that I've had for 18months or more like this.
Better late than never I have set up for future use a small 50ltr tank to use as a quarantine/hospital tank
Thanks once again to you all - everhopeful - I

[Jay]

I'm glad to hear "quarantine tank" if you are serious about the hobby, or until you have to fight an ich outbreak they are invaluable.


When I first set up my tank, I had 5 albino glolight tetras develop ich.

Hope we all realize that ich is not spontaneous, it is introduced from an infected tank or source.

Jay

[rosita]

Just a supportive comment to your excellent ICH assistance--as a "newbie" last fall I started with a 10g and 2 shubunkin (I know I know, overload--not a reputable lfs I discovered). Almost immediately after introducing a supposed SAE, ick showed up and swiftly took the shubus--but not before the Chinese!!algae eater took off a fin. LFS told me ich is always there, just waiting for stress and that I let the fish get stressed by the CAE they sold me!! Found this site and learned that they were sooooo wrong!! So things are much better now :bowing:
Thank you all!

[mainer]

i have ich also currently and i was wondering if i have to worry about reinfecting a tank with my fish net or other things i put in the tank ???

[Star_Rider]

do some research an learn all you can about ich(ichthyophthirius) called white spot or ich.
the spots you see(usually white -resemble sprinkles of salt) is the cyst (parasite) that feeds on flesh till mature. in this stage you really won't effectively treat the parasite.
once mature it falls off the fish into your substrate, plant etc.
where the parasite encasulates and multiplies.
they then become free swimming attaching itself to the host(fish)
it is in this free swimming stage that you can effectively treat to remove /kill the parasite.

raising the temp of the water speeds up the cycle. one reason they recommend rasing the temp..at low temps the capsules can stay domant for weeks.
ich can effectively be controlled with treatments ranging from copper, coppersafe salt..etc.
good luck

[rrkss]

i have ich also currently and i was wondering if i have to worry about reinfecting a tank with my fish net or other things i put in the tank ???

Ich is one of those parasites that can not survive being dried out. If the net is completely dry for 24 hours or more, you will not have a problem. Anything with moisture on it is potentially a vehicle to transfer ich.

[rrkss]

After many failures treating ich with medication, I treat it with salt everytime from now on. I've not seen ich in a while ever since I used the salt method for at least 7 days at 80*F.

[rosita]

I know this is a stoopid question, but do you need to take plants fish etc out of hot salt bath? :eek: (Please excuse my lack of common sense, it's been educated out of me!)

[Jay]

Please read the information available on ich in the archives and stickies it will answer your questions on plants, fish etc.

I would caution against using copper as a treatment it just is not worth the risk when the salt temp thing does so well. Keep in mind that you are trying to kill an organism, without killing your fish and inverts.

Jay

[mainer]

do i just add salt once a week or daily for a week?

[rrkss]

You add the proper salt dose once and after that, you don't touch the salt unless you have to do water changes where you would compensate for the salt being removed by the water. Davidka's ich article will tell you how to measure salt ... Salt does not get removed from the water EXCEPT by waterchanges.

[chicken2]

YES, stop the green medication :)

Follow the ich article to a "T" and you will be ich-less.

As for your reputable aquaria place, darkening the tank is for treating velvet, not ich. That won't affect ich at all. It's possible they told you to do that to make sure it wasn't velvet, however it's very easy to tell the difference between ich and velvet.

As for your current course of medication -- most medications require daily treatments and regardless of what the bottle says, you MUST treat for 7 days minimum or the ich will survive in the substrate and reinfest your fish.

Roan

Well I've increased the temp slowly, done a water change and added a charcoal filter and put the med bottle away!!

I have started to add the salt 1/4 teaspoon per gallon every hour for 4 hours - - and then a further 4 doses of 1/4 teaspoon of salt every 3-4 hours :confused: :confused: this then gives me a total of 2 teaspoons per gallon in the tank.

fingers crossed that this will work and I will keep you updated

ps - what an excellent clear article Daveedka has written on Ich

[Roan Art]

ps - what an excellent clear article Daveedka has written on IchIt is, isn't it? I love the salt + heat because it's far easier for people new to the hobby to handle and that makes it, IMO, safer for the fish.

With meds you get so much conflicting information and some of it can seriously harm or kill your fish. For example, using heat with some types of medications increases their toxicity a *lot*, some medications are toxic to bottom feeders, some are toxic to bottom feeders, tetras, barbs and gouramis, and most will obliterate your biofilter.

It's hard to know which to use and what to do.

Roan

[Pufferpoison]

the salt is the way to go. i have a 55 gallon that i bought 3 clown loaches for and bam less than a week later ich everywhere. it even got cross contaiminated into my wife's 10 gallon tank. went through expensive medicine for 3 weeks without any results other than making my loaches almost die, then i read the article on ich, put the charcoal back in and salted the tank, raised temp to 82, i have a refractometer for my brackish / saltwater, so that went smooth. after 3 days most all ich was gone, but the loaches didn't survive, i lost one from the first medicine, 2 others were weak and FULL of ich so i don't blame the salt but my tank is clean now and still leaving salt in for another week and best cure .49 cents could buy LOL

[chicken2]

A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU


after all those weeks of medicating etc - the salt method DOES WORK!!!!!!!

to be honest I couldn't see how salt would cure what medicine couldn't.
I don't know/understand the hows and whys of this but I am so grateful and so are my fish.

All the fish are clean now - it took just 5 days - I was a little worried that the salt levels would kill off some of my fish, but the whitespot was going to kill them all and I was really desperate.

If only this salt/heat regime was more widely recognised - I certainly will promote this over chemicals every time.

[chicken2]

the salt is the way to go. i have a 55 gallon,.... but the loaches didn't survive, i lost one from the first medicine, 2 others were weak and FULL of ich so i don't blame the salt but my tank is clean now and still leaving salt in for another week and best cure .49 cents could buy LOL

I'm so sorry that you lost your clowns - I was very lucky not to have the same happen to me - - they suffered terribly.

Like you, i'm going to leave salt in for a further week even though the fish look free of ich

[Roan Art]

A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL OF YOU


after all those weeks of medicating etc - the salt method DOES WORK!!!!!!!

to be honest I couldn't see how salt would cure what medicine couldn't.
I don't know/understand the hows and whys of this but I am so grateful and so are my fish.

All the fish are clean now - it took just 5 days - I was a little worried that the salt levels would kill off some of my fish, but the whitespot was going to kill them all and I was really desperate.

If only this salt/heat regime was more widely recognised - I certainly will promote this over chemicals every time.

That's wonderful! :thm:

But PLEASE keep treating for at least 7 days to be *sure* you've eradicated the ich cysts in the substrate, kay?

Roan

[rrkss]

The salt method works by reversing osmosis. Instead of water flowing into the ich parasite allowing it to remain turbid and stiff like the parasite was designed for, it changes the osmotic flow pulling water out of the ich parasite. Pretty much it crenates the parasites shrinking it. Similar to a balloon going flat. The parasite in this crenated state can not function properly and dies. Fish on the other hand don't undergo this problem because they need to a maintain a 0.9% salt solution in their blood to stay alive. Since we use a 0.3% salt solution to kill ich, water is still rushing into the fish just at a slightly slower rate. The fish still needs to excrete large amounts of water (20-30% of its body weight daily) in order to stay balanced. This is why short term salt use is relatively harmless. Keep the salt in for at least 3 more days though 5 is better to make sure that this ich is definately erradicated. It won't hurt your fish.