Freshwater Puffer??? Need help!!!

[Stephen]

I did some impulse buying tonight. I purchased 2 very small puffers. The are a 1/2" long. The tank was labeled "Freshwater Puffers". I think I screwed up. I am placing them in my 30 gallon tank and my nephews are taking the guppies. Should I add salt to this tank to make it brackish? If so how much? I have some instant ocean on hand and can add salt if needed. What's the salinity I should shoot for however? Could you also give me any info on them that you can. The guy at the store told me they are eating tubifex worms, black worms, and baby brine shrimp? Should I feed them something else? What should the temp be??? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Pufferpunk]

If they were kept in FW at the store, don't worry right away about changing their conditions. Let's find out what they are 1st. Check out the FW & BW fish in this forum. Click on the fish in the left corner: http://chunkypuff.net/projectpuffer/search.htm

[Stephen]

I believe it's the congo spotted. They are so small though. Smaller than my thumbnail. They look kinda like the green spotted but more like the congo spotted.

I've mixed 1 cup of instant ocean in 2 gallons of freshwater from the tank. When everything completely dissolved I started adding it at a 1 drop per second. It's being delivered in a tube the size of normal airline tubing. I ran to the local squad building and got an IV dripper tube from a buddy. It's never been used so it should be safe. Is this a slow enough rate? The container the saltwater is in is clear and I've barely noticed any movement in the last 10 minutes.

A little about the tank.
PH 7.0
Hardness: The kit read 90 ppm (ok?)
Sand bottom
Plastic Plants
Emperor 280
Heater (temp is 78)
Small airstone

[Pufferpunk]

If you think it is a Congo, then why are you adding salt? They are FW. Does the fish have the wavy black line separating the spots from the white stomach? Also, there should be visible spines on it's belly. In the many lfs I know that sell puffers, I have never seen a Congo for sale. The more commonly sold GSP is usually available in most stores.

If you do decide it is the BW GSP, then they like a specific gravity of around 1.008 as juveniles & much higher as adults. I keep mine at 1.016-19.

[Stephen]

No there are no wavy lines and no spines. It's spotted like the green spotted. But there was a fish on that site you posted called the spotted congo puffer. It looked more similar to that. Could it possibly be a mistake? On the 2 other sites I've looked at it looks like the green spotted. The color isn't as vived though. That's the reason I thought it was the congo spotted from the site you listed. The color is more similar to that.

These things are about the size of a big pea. And it's difficult to tell. They are hanging out together. If that will help any. lol

[Pufferpunk]

That tiny huh? What about a dwarf puffer? They're FW, too. http://www.rr.iij4u.or.jp/~kohda/en-index.htm

[Stephen]

Alright. I don't know if it was the lighting or whatever in the store or what. They looked the same in the bag even with the stress. These little guys have taken on a bright green color in thier new home though. Scratch the spotted congo. I'm 90% sure they are green spotted.

[Stephen]

Judging from the fry pics on that site I'd say no. The spot patterns are different. They are circles and ovals instead of shapes like the ones on the site.

The only problem though is... The dwarf has the larger spots and the GSP has smaller spots. The ones I have have bigger spots. I'm starting to change my mind again.

About 3 cups of the salt mix got into the tank so far. I've stopped putting it in just to be sure. Thanks for all you help. I'm going to wait a while and try and figure out what they are when they get bigger. If it's the dwarfs they aren't gonna get too much larger.

[Pufferpunk]

So it sound like you have the green spotted puffer (GSP), a BW fish. They should last a while in a 30g tank. I have my 2 GSPs (5") in a 50g. Your tiny guys will love blackworms (especially live), plankton, & tiny pond snails, needed to keep their teeth (beaks) trimmed. As they get larger, they will eat any kind of shelled food. Mine eat "people" shrimp, earthworms, clams, mussels, oysters, crayfish, scallops, krill, & crab legs. As your grow, you can cut up any of these for them. I buy it at the grocery store & freeze.

[stik6shift98]

did u get it at petsmart....then its a dwarf puffer.....

[Stephen]

No. I got it at a LFS in Charlottesville Va.

[Dangerdoll]

for my own curiosity, pufferpunk, if they are dwarf's, wouldn't the salt be bad for them? I know a lot of FW puffers can take slightly brackish environments but I always thought they (dwarf's) were one of the FW type that are intolerant of it......they can handle it?

[Pufferpunk]

Actually no, they can't handle BW at all. When I 1st started collecting puffs, I assumed they were all BW, & put my dwarfs in BW. They died in one day. :(

[Stephen]

mwood posted a pic in the freshwater forum that's the same as what I have. I did a 25% water change today in the tank incase the salt I added did any harm. They are dwarfs though. Finally able to stop frantically searching. Thanks for all your help. Any info???

[Pufferpunk]

I believe in a previous post, I gasve you the link to Ren's dwarf puffersite. Here's another one: http://home.t-online.de/home/schraml.e/21art1e.htm

[Stephen]

Pufferpunk. Thanks for all your help. I'm sure I became a pain before it was over. lol. I'm judging from mia's username and the copyright on that pic it was one of her own. What I have looks exactly like it.

[Dangerdoll]

hey firefighter,

I've had 3 dwarf's for close to a year now and they are one of my favorites....... when I first got them, I was feeding them frozen brine shrimp and then started feeding frozen blood worms. They liked the worms a lot better. There's always a nice supply of snails making it around the tank and I'm guessing they are controlled from my 3 little puff's......I've never saw the snail and puffer confrontations, or the puffers anywhere near the snails but I know something is keeping the population down because the snails can get out of control rather quickly. Something they like even better than the frozen blood worms was the live black worms. I've had them in the tank with cories, red tail sharks, angels, and pleco's, and they all seem to do fine with them. I've never had any of the rumored fin-nipping that I've heard about and can assume at best that this is an individual trait. With that, if you do go community with them, I'd think it'd be best to carefully watch them when introduced to other fish or vice versa, this way you can also come to the tolerance level of your little guys. Good luck with them, I have a ball with them in my tank, and hope you do too! :)

[Stephen]

Dangerdoll. I've got the 2 in a 30 tall. Only only thing in there are 2 guppy fry smaller than they are. They aren't eating well. I'm planning on going to the LFS tomorrow evening for some frozen black worms, frozen brine shrimp, and maybe some frozen blood worms. The don't like the krill and tubifex worms the pet store assured me they were eating.

I'm thinking I can add a few more of these to this tank? Since they stay so small. The LFS had about 20 of them in a 10 that was in a corner. I overlooked them a few times while I was browsing. I'm thinking about picking up 4 or 6 more. If I need to I can purchase a bigger tank for them in the future. How many could I put in this tank?

[Pufferpunk]

They grow to be 1". I would go with 1 fish/3gal. You need to learn the difference from m/f, as the males will fight.

[Stephen]

Ok. I've established a few things with these fish. They love live blacks worms, frozen bloodworms are ok, live bbs are great, and little bitty crayfish are attacked by the wolf pack the eaten.

Pufferpunk. Females are more rounded right? If not, how do I tell the difference? If they are more rounded I have one male and the rest are females. But there's one that doesn't hang with the pack all the time. Could it be there's a dominate male already in the pack? I've not noticed any disputes between any of them. The one just does it's own thing and hangs with the pack when it decides. Or to feed.

Also... There are some really small snails in my greenhouse koi pond. Like the size of a pin head. Can I feed them to the puffers? Or maybe put a few in the tank and let them grab them on thier own? There are also a bigger snails. The biggest the size of a dime. I didn't add them so they either came from the plants or some other unknown means.

And last but not least. The ponds, lakes, streams, and rivers are full of freshwater shrimp. I laugh when I see them in pet stores now. A net and a bucket and you can have tons of them. Anyway... I know the puffers are only going to get an inch or so. Think they could manage to feed on a small freshwater shrimp? Around the thier same size.

I'd like to offer them a varied diet. Black worms seem to be a must. And the crayfish. If the snails and shrimp will work I'll keep it to those 4. I'm not interested in raising bbs, and like with the frozen bloods worms they just nibble them. They'll have one, and ignore the rest. The cories love them however. Also the flounder.

I saw a 45 gallon breeder tank at the lfs when I was getting another cory and think I'd like to get it for 15-20 of these guys. I liked the fact that it was wider instead of taller. Say like a 55. I'm a big fan of larger fish, but these guys have me in front of thier tank more than the others. My oscar is intelligent. But these puffers are in a class of thier own.

[Pufferpunk]

Since you find puffers so interesting, why don't you use the larger tank for some larger puffers, say some green spotted? BW isn't much more difficultr than FW.

To answer your ? about sexing dwarfs, see: http://www.rr.iij4u.or.jp/~kohda/en/en-dwarfpuffer.htm

[Stephen]

Pufferpunk. I'm thinking about keeping a brackish water tank actually. Maybe when the fish in the 75 outgrow it I'll convert it to brackish water.

I just feel like the dwarfs in the 30 would be better off in a tank that's longer instead of taller.

[Dangerdoll]

Originally posted by Firefighter

Pufferpunk. Females are more rounded right? If not, how do I tell the difference? If they are more rounded I have one male and the rest are females. But there's one that doesn't hang with the pack all the time. Could it be there's a dominate male already in the pack? I've not noticed any disputes between any of them. The one just does it's own thing and hangs with the pack when it decides. Or to feed.

The way to tell the difference between males and females with these little guys is the female will have a solid white belly, while the male will have a line going from their chin to their tail through the center of this white belly. Both of them will get pretty riounded, depending on how much they can fit in their little bellies. For that one that lingers to and fro the group at it's own will, could be that it just has a mind of it's own.


Also... There are some really small snails in my greenhouse koi pond. Like the size of a pin head. Can I feed them to the puffers? Or maybe put a few in the tank and let them grab them on thier own? There are also a bigger snails. The biggest the size of a dime. I didn't add them so they either came from the plants or some other unknown means.

If you're absolutely sure there's no kind of disease in the pond, I think it'd be alright to throw a few in the tank. You could just toss them in, let the snails do what they want and eventually your puffers will notice them and begin to keep them in check. When I first put some in my tank though, they were gone in no time. I had to offer them snails a few times before they started chilling out on them or maybe it was that finally the snails did what they needed to do to keep a colony going. Now, I still have snails constantly, but never an overwhelming overabundance....I'm giving that tribute to the puffers keeping them in check.


And last but not least. The ponds, lakes, streams, and rivers are full of freshwater shrimp. I laugh when I see them in pet stores now. A net and a bucket and you can have tons of them. Anyway... I know the puffers are only going to get an inch or so. Think they could manage to feed on a small freshwater shrimp? Around the thier same size.

I'm a little weary about taking from the wild and adding them to the home aquarium. I guess I don't trust the parameters whole heartedly. If I were you, I'd quarantine the shrimp before tossing them in your tank. I will say though, that they do rather have a fancy for them and they're good for keeping their teeth good and trimmed.


I'd like to offer them a varied diet. Black worms seem to be a must. And the crayfish. If the snails and shrimp will work I'll keep it to those 4. I'm not interested in raising bbs, and like with the frozen bloods worms they just nibble them. They'll have one, and ignore the rest. The cories love them however. Also the flounder.
sounds like you're on your way to a few happy little puffers with this variation!! :D ;) :D


I saw a 45 gallon breeder tank at the lfs when I was getting another cory and think I'd like to get it for 15-20 of these guys. I liked the fact that it was wider instead of taller. Say like a 55. I'm a big fan of larger fish, but these guys have me in front of thier tank more than the others. My oscar is intelligent. But these puffers are in a class of thier own.

I agree, these little guys can sure measure up to some of the biggest!! Good luck Fire, I wish you and your little ones the best!

[Firsttanks]

Firefighter, I have 6 of the little darlings myself, they are the most intelligent fish we have, but I refer to them as the tiny terrors. I have not been able to keep them with any other fish (except my bumblebee gobies, which I will be moving to a Bw setup soon). I tried them in a community tank and they proceeded to use all the other fish as entertainment and ride them around the tank by grabbing onto a fin or tail and riding until they were ripped loose. I moved them into a tank with 4 Africian cichlids, hoping the cichlids would keep them in line. All the cichlids did was make them angry, and the morning after they were moved into the tank I found one of the cichlids dead with his lip ripped off. They now reside with my gobies in a 25 gal. hex tank, the gobies either ignore them, or chase them away when they get too close. I made the mistake of putting 3 albino cories in as a cleanup crew, but they only lasted 1 day before their fins were all but gone. I now use large snails as a cleanup crew (hoping they will breed and supply my pufferpack with free treats). Until the snails breed I feed them 10 small snails once a month, they go wild for them.:D

[rjl420]

I agree, puffers in general always seem to be the most intellectual (rather than intelligent) species of fish I keep. they are very personable and social, at least IME. I second pufferpunks recomendation of gettng some of the other puffers available. colomesus asellus is another puffer that can get along in community setups and is also fresh water, they get a little bit bigger that the FWD puffers do.


Firsttanks, are you sure you're talking about FW dwarf puffers? I couldn't imagine these guys ripping the lips off a cichlid they are probably the most easy going puffers I've ever kept. I've kept them with bettas, dwarf gouramis, asst tetras and currently in my 35 gal planted tank with 4 cories and 12 harelquen rasboras, my pack of 6 (4 F, 2 M) pretty much stay to themsleves. It sounds to me like you may have the more common Green spotted puffer.

[Firsttanks]

Nope, they are "Tetraodon travancorius", and everyone I speak with are a little surprised how aggressige these little darlings can get when provoked. Left to their own devises they are playfull and like to chase each other around, with only minor nipping. Other fish, as I mentioned, are used as an Amusement ride for them, but with no real malice on the part of the puffers just good fun.
I suspect with the cichlids, they tried to bully one or more of the puffers and the whole pack got fed up with them and made an example of one. When we checked on them in the morning the other 3 cichlids were staying pretty much to one corner of the tank, and the pack was cruising around like they didn't have a care in the world :D :p :D ...lesson learned! It was then that they got their own tank.

Here's a pic for you, excuse the quality as the little darlings are camera shy and won't stay still.
;)