Cruelly Overstocked 5g [Archive]

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Bitsy

03-03-2006, 5:53 PM

:mad: So today I was with one of my friends running errands. Our last stop was at her friend, Julie's house. We walked in and sitting on top of the entertainment center in front of a huge picture window was a tiny 5 gallon tank. Being a curious person by nature I walked over to take a peak.........what I saw was beyond horrible. In this 5g tank with a whisper internal filter and no heater she has the following fish:
4 glo light tetras
4 black skirt tetras
4 female bettas
2 ADFs
3 neon tetras
1 common pleco
and a handful of ghost shrimp :mad2:

I felt so bad for these fishies, so I asked her how long her tank had been up and running, she told me, "oh a couple months." So I asked her if she knew how horribly overstocked her tank was and before I could finish my sentence she told me, "I've been keeping fish forever, I know what I'm doing, everyone is happy, healthy and fine. I haven't lost a single fish yet." :rant2: So needless to say I was pissed and tried a little bit more to argue my point, but everything I said fell on deaf ears. Some people just don't want to listen. Makes me sad :mad:

MidnightPyro

03-03-2006, 5:58 PM

I didn't even know all those fish could literally *FIT* in a 5 gallon :thud:

kyle3

03-03-2006, 5:59 PM

oh my god! how on earth is it possible for all of those fish to live in there for 2 months!!!!

i can't believe they haven't died especially w/o a heater

i wouldn't believe it if you hadn't seen it with your own eyes!

Emg

03-03-2006, 6:15 PM

I don't think it's worth loosing a friendship over a fish tank....is it ?

Bitsy

03-03-2006, 6:31 PM

I'm not losing a friend over it. I didn't even know her until my friend took me over there today. I am just completely disgusted with the situation. I wish I had one of those camera phone thingies so I could have taken a pic all nonchalantly.

It just amazes me that people think that it doesn't matter cause they are "just fish".

Lobo.

03-03-2006, 7:03 PM

dont worry about the nonchalaunt picture... just go there with a camera and take it before they all die!!! id really like to see this tank!

also... if she has been doing this for a while, then it would surprise her to know the lifespan of many of the fish that she is stuffing into boxes... she probably thinks that its like half a year at tops! (and if she hasnt lost any 2 months into the cycle, then she is pretty good, albeit torturously giving them a slower death...)

Genral72

03-03-2006, 7:33 PM

dont worry about the nonchalaunt picture... just go there with a camera and take it before they all die!!! id really like to see this tank!

Yeah me too I really want to see this that would be amazing It would be a world record for fish stuffing.

Watcher74

03-03-2006, 8:31 PM

Animals die cruelly with or without humans. And with fish we can't call the "Animal Police", so just stay away from her ignorant approach at keeping fish.

She is not an aquarist. She just buys fish stuff.

Larissa

03-03-2006, 8:48 PM

Sounds just like my brother-in-laws tank. :thud:

Drekkyk

03-03-2006, 8:53 PM

I feel like my tank is getting full with 20, that many in a 5g is just plain ignorant! :rant2:

KingOfTheDeep

03-04-2006, 2:30 AM

i knew a guy a while back that had 9 neons, 5 bloodfins and 6 corys in a 2 gallon, no heater, no filter, no light...needless to say they where dead in less than a month 1/2..after that he was given a speech on how to properly keep fish..he now has a 110gal with discus that has been running for almost 3 years..what a little listening will do..i tell you...

jnr102030

03-04-2006, 3:36 AM

I have seen a 2.5 gallon with 10 neon tetras 2 cherry barbs 1 betta and a ADF

Red Tailed Wonder

03-04-2006, 3:56 AM

:OT: thats rediculous why arent those poor fish ded? goto heven fish you will be a lot happier there

fIsHy13

03-04-2006, 4:08 AM

That makes me feel sick. Poor, poor fishies. Perhaps you could make up a cunning plan to take tyem off her hands...he he he.

tinytnt

03-04-2006, 4:14 AM

Then she'd prolly just get more, since "she's been keeping fish forever." Ugh. That's too sad.

fIsHy13

03-04-2006, 4:30 AM

Don't you wish that fish had the same rights as other animals? I hope that one day, in my life time, they do.

gagaliya

03-04-2006, 5:01 AM

Unfortunately most people do not consider fish pets. They are mere children "toys" you win at the carnival. I dont have any malice towards those people, after all we stuff edible fish into tanks that are so small they cannot even move, and then smack their heads in and gut them for "seafood". That's the same indifference most people have towards hobby fish. And can you really blame them?

A great nature preservist named janine benyus once said "In the end, we save what we love, we love what we understand, we understand only what we have knowledge of" That rings especially true in fish. The best thing any of us can do is to educate the uninformed. And sometimes we just have to accept the fact that not everyone have the intelligence to listen & learn.

I remember before i started this hobby (less than 6 months ago!), in one of my parents' friend's party, i saw a large silver arowana been kept in a tank that's one and half times his body length!! Everytime he tries to turn(barely), his tail smacks the glass or the heater. At the time i had not a clue, and thought like everyone else cool fish/tank. Now i know what fish that was and how badly overstocked the tank really was. I would definitly said something to the owner if i had that knowledge back then. Ironically the owner is a college professor too, someone who supposely are smart enough to understand the concept of research before execution. Guess he just doesnt care about fish...yet.

anyway didnt mean to ramble on, yeah take a picture of the 5gallon...it will be (worst) tank of the year

echoofformless

03-04-2006, 1:08 PM

I wonder what sort of water change schedule this person is using. I can only imagine that they are very sporadic if any at all.

But, if she runs a huge filter, does large water changes every week and vacuums the hell out of her substrate...that amount of fish could theoretically live an almost slightly somewhat perhaps just a small amount of a semi-barely healthy existence.

RiverKid

06-09-2006, 6:05 AM

After reading over this I'm wondering if I have too many in my 5 gallon tank.

I've only recently started keeping a tank having gotten a 5 gallon hex tank for Christmas. At first I used it as a Betta tank, but after my Betta got the bloat and had to be put down I purchased a couple of Zebra Danois sp?, and a couple of Tetra's. All 4 fish are still really small so I added 4 more smaller fish 2 are long tail danio's and 2 are a tetra type fish, I just forget which one. Also I've added a sucker fish for an algae problem I had a couple of months ago. I do regular water changes about every other week and change the filter every 2-3 weeks. Will I have problems in the future with this many in this size of tank?

Also. 3 weeks ago I purchased 2 plants to add to the tank and after a rather foul smell (and my sucker fish tearing the plants up) I removed them. Last week I noticed a snail in my tank and didn't think much of it thinking it was just on the plants. However, when I changed the water this afternoon I pulled over 20 snails from the tank and still saw a bunch in the gravel. I called Petsmart and talked to the fish guy there and he recommended "Had-a-Snail" solution.

I took the fish out of the tank and have done a complete water change. I asked the fish guy if I should wash the gravel and he recommended strongly against it because of the helpful bacteria. I understand this. I did read though that because my systems has a bio-wheel that it should be ok to do a complete gravel wash. Would anyone have an answer for me about this?

I want to rid myself of the snail problem and read about getting Loaches, but I know I do not have the space to get a couple more pair of fish. (not sure how big YoYo loaches get). So I may try the cucumber or lettuce trick.

There's so many questions I have, but this being my first post I shall save them for later once I get answers to my current problem.

Thank you,
Chris

Roan Art

06-09-2006, 6:35 AM

After reading over this I'm wondering if I have too many in my 5 gallon tank.Yes, you do.

I've only recently started keeping a tank having gotten a 5 gallon hex tank for Christmas. At first I used it as a Betta tank, but after my Betta got the bloat and had to be put down I purchased a couple of Zebra Danois sp?, and a couple of Tetra's. All 4 fish are still really small so I added 4 more smaller fish 2 are long tail danio's and 2 are a tetra type fish, I just forget which one. Also I've added a sucker fish for an algae problem I had a couple of months ago. I do regular water changes about every other week and change the filter every 2-3 weeks. Will I have problems in the future with this many in this size of tank? You've got enough fish in there for a 10g tank.

Also. 3 weeks ago I purchased 2 plants to add to the tank and after a rather foul smell (and my sucker fish tearing the plants up) I removed them. Last week I noticed a snail in my tank and didn't think much of it thinking it was just on the plants. However, when I changed the water this afternoon I pulled over 20 snails from the tank and still saw a bunch in the gravel. I called Petsmart and talked to the fish guy there and he recommended "Had-a-Snail" solution. I hope you didn't use that junk. Snails are actually good for your tank -- they eat leftover food and algae. If you have too many snails it's because you are overfeeding your fish. Your snail population will only grow as large as the available food supply.

I suggest you cut back on the feeding a lot and you'll see the snail population go down.

I took the fish out of the tank and have done a complete water change. I asked the fish guy if I should wash the gravel and he recommended strongly against it because of the helpful bacteria. I understand this. I did read though that because my systems has a bio-wheel that it should be ok to do a complete gravel wash. Would anyone have an answer for me about this?You don't need to wash your gravel. Change the water weekly, not biweekly, in amounts of 25-50% and gravel vac each time.

I want to rid myself of the snail problem and read about getting Loaches, but I know I do not have the space to get a couple more pair of fish. (not sure how big YoYo loaches get). So I may try the cucumber or lettuce trick.Do not add any more fish. The ones in there are already cramped. Use the cucumber and lettuce and cut back on the food.

Roan

dorkfish

06-09-2006, 6:43 AM

any more than about 5-7 fish(the smallest commonly available species) in a 5g is pushing it, so yes, you are overstocked.

Tetras and danios should be kept in schools of atleast 5-6 more is better.

You need to identify the sucker fish, some of them grow to 2'+.

the snail problem is caused by excess food, cut down on feedings.

You should be doing water changes(25%min.) with a gravel vacum every week.

Your best solution here is to get atleast a 20g tank and up gravel vacuming, this will keep snail populations low(you can't get rid of them completly) and give you room for a pair of smaller loaches.

Use this site (http://www.aquahobby.com/e_home.php) to research future inhabitants and to identify the fish you have, do that and post the list with your next question(s)

RockabillyChick

06-09-2006, 7:17 AM

pretty soon i want to try a 5.5g planted nano. however the only inhabitance will be red cherry shrimp. maybe 8-10 of them.

LunchBox

06-09-2006, 7:19 AM

I have nothing to add to what the others have already suggested (which is all good advice BTW), but I wanted to say that the good thing is that you are here and asking questions. the more we all learn about the hobby the healthier our fish are and you're definitely off to a good start if you take what the folks here have to offer.

good luck with the snails!

mvigor

06-09-2006, 8:18 AM

My first tank as a young kid was bought for me as a birthday present by my friend. He said he would spend $20 on me. The 2 gallon hex setup package cost about $12.80. I spent the remaining amount on 18 cent comet goldfish.

Yeah, really.

One of the comets lived 4 years and got to be about 5 inches long.

A lot of people make ignorant mistakes...and now that it is no longer 1985 we have the internet to inform us. Learn from your mistakes and quickly take steps to correct them.

Alestro Bakai

06-09-2006, 11:50 AM

I know why things like this happen though. Because people go into a pet store and take a look at all those pretty 5.5g aquaria boxes and then they decide to get something like this one...

http://www.elmersaquarium.com/images/102_5bow_orange.gif

...and think that they can drop just as many fish in there as is shown in the pretty colored picture. Heck, if it's in the picture, it must be the suggested stocking option.

RiverKid

06-09-2006, 3:57 PM

I know why things like this happen though. Because people go into a pet store and take a look at all those pretty 5.5g aquaria boxes and then they decide to get something like this one...

...and think that they can drop just as many fish in there as is shown in the pretty colored picture. Heck, if it's in the picture, it must be the suggested stocking option.

Actually that is not at all what I did. I have read many time that you should keep to the 1" / 1 gallon rule when keeping fish. I have 8 small fish each less that 1/2" long so I figured they would fall within the rule.

As for the sucker fish, sorry for being so vague this morning. It's hard to focus first thing in the morning. It's a common algae eater that shouldn't get more than 2".

I've come up with an overstocking option though. My neighbor has a community 55gallon tank with a small school of both the tetra's and danio's that I have and she would like to take them. This leaves me the option of ensuring that I am correctly keeping this tank once I downsize the number of fish.

I've also read different opinions on the thickness of the gravel for a 5 gallon Hex tank. I've read the ideal gravel size should be 1/4" thick , but also read it should be 1"-1.5" thick. Any thoughts on this? I want to cut down the amount of waste that I vacuum up when I clean and feel the thicker the gravel the more waste that stays within/hidden.

Thank you for everyone's suggestions and thoughts on these questions.

A noob who is attempting to learn as much as possible.

Alestro Bakai

06-09-2006, 5:32 PM

I wasn't attacking you by any means. As a matter of fact, I've fallen into the same trap all the way in the beginning. "Well, the picture's showing that many fish, so it must be ok..."

TheZoo

06-09-2006, 5:43 PM

I think that 1" of fish per gallon rule is pretty much bunk...theres more to it than size.
Your algae eater, can you post a pic of him? Many of the ones commonly sold will get pretty big, or dont do much of a job w/algae.
For gravel depth, as long as you have enough to get your plants/ornaments in, and you stay under 2 inches, maybe?, youll be ok. Youre right in thinking that the deeper the substrate is, the more gunk may remain; however, as long as you keep up the gravel vac-ing, maybe doing half the tank one time, the other half the next, vac-ing until the water runs clear, I think youd be ok. Some gunk is good, thats where alot of benificial bacteria lives.

RiverKid

06-09-2006, 6:11 PM

I wasn't implying that you were attacking me at all. I only quoted you to ensure my response was understood.

As for the Algae eater, currently I have no way of posting a pic. From what I've been researching today it looks like a Pleco? The guy at the LFS (i'm guessing this means local fish store, I haven't seen reference to what it really means yet) stated that it would not getting any larger than 2.5-3". However, he's really grown within the past few weeks almost doubling in size. I'm at a loss as to get rid of him and/or get another or just hope he doesn't get any larger. My wife is already on my case about getting rid of the fish and stating i'm spending to much money... .... oh well. I'm used to it! :devil:

As for the gravel, I attempt to vacuum it as much as possible but still seems to be extremely dirty. I've been reading about sand tank also. What are the differences in maintaining a gravel tank to a sand one? Any benefits from one over the other? Pro's/Con's?

Thanks in advance.

Chris

Roan Art

06-09-2006, 7:02 PM

Chris,

Common plecos, which is probably what you have, grow from 12-24". Many LFS sell them as "small algae eaters that won't get very big".

Roan

RiverKid

06-09-2006, 8:23 PM

Chris,

Common plecos, which is probably what you have, grow from 12-24". Many LFS sell them as "small algae eaters that won't get very big".

Roan

Yeh! I know now! :mad2:

I just made a visit to the LFS and spent about 45minutes walking and talking to the fish guru there. He's really upset that I was sold the algae eater and told it would get only about 2-3". This particular type can get up to 18". He recommended a couple of smaller types and said I could return my algae eater for one of those if I wish. Also he stated instead of giving my fish to my neighbor he would accept them if I returned them and be giving store credit.

Also, we started talking about the possibilities of getting a larger tank. A basic starter tank in the 20g range. Possibly 40$ max for everything I need to get started. Most of the brands I saw were Top Fin. So can anyone suggest a good setup to begin with? Should I go with the kit that includes the tank, top fin power filter, hood and extra's? It's 40$ for the setup, but only 10g. Or should I opt for a 20g tank and try to build my setup from the ground up? I would need suggestions on the filteration needed for the 20g though. I've heard people like undergravel filters for larger tanks, but also have heard that bio-wheel filters that attach at the top are most preferred because of ease of use.

If someone has the means to point me in the right direction, also by making a list of items I definately need just to get started with a larger tank I would appreciate it greatly.

I'm sure there is a thread in here directed at exactly what I'm seeking, but I've failed to find it yet.

Thank you all for your time.
Chris

Star_Rider

06-09-2006, 9:03 PM

River Kid,

actually some of the 20 gal starter kits aren't that bad. they aren't the best equiptment but they are okay and will suffice till you can afford better.
as long as it has a filter and a heater you can set them up. it'll be bare bottom ..but there are advantages to that.
you have an existing tank that is running so you have the bio media starter.

you could also look to ad's in the paper or craigslist.
as far as bio wheels and ugf..everyone has their opinion.
I run ugf with an ac in my 55,rfug with ac in my 20 and wet dry sump in my 75.
there are pro's and cons on all the filters..run what you like they work.
I generally catch flak about the ugf but I like the fact that the entire substrate is a bio filter and with the rfug I see hardly any mulm build up when I vac..I do have the 'flush' the sponges more often.

when it comes to bio wheel or Aqua clear..it's a toss up. both are good and both do what they are designed to do..it's a matter of which one you like best.

dorkfish

06-09-2006, 9:07 PM

Well, heres a list, in list format too.

tank(preferably a glass tank, but if you can get other types cheaper go for it)
Hang on tank filter, preferably an aquaclear becuase top fins can be really noisy when improperly adjusted(and it takes about a half hour to adjust them properly), biowheels are unessisary unless your planning on overstocking the tank.
heater, about 5x the tanks volume(in gallons) in wattage.
lighting, if you want it(fish would rather have room lighting), a wattage equal to the tank volume for fish only, 1.5-3 watts per gallon for plants.
decor, enough to give the fish good cover via plants and a few hiding places such as caves.
gravel or no gravel?, it doesn't matter in a properly maintaned tank, but if you want it, use atleast enough to cover most of the bottom and use suction cups to atach the plastic plants if it isn't deep enough.Live plants can be grown potted(but not in the tiny pots you get from the LFS with potted plants).
Thermometer of course

I cant help but think theres something I'm missing.

Forevernight

08-19-2006, 8:24 AM

My best buddy has a 10 gallon that i gave him and he put a Red devil. a small Jack Dempsey and a small Oscar, and a common pleco in it. The oscar and Jd are always hiding because the Devil is EXTREMELY aggresive.

Rbishop

08-19-2006, 8:56 AM

thefirethief

08-19-2006, 9:46 AM

WHile we are on the subject of stocking in a 5 Gallon..... I was quite surprised to see 15 flame tetras in this (http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi?&Scale=258&op=showcase&category=0&vol=0&id=31) contest tank and 2 platys, 2 swordtails, 8 cardinal tetras, 2 siamese algae eaters and 2 otos in this (http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2005.cgi?&Scale=258&op=showcase&category=0&vol=0&id=68) 5 gallon.

Do you think those levels of socking are sustainable by anyone other than an expert?

thefirethief

08-21-2006, 10:05 AM

Sorry to bump this, but anyone got any suggestions on my last comment? Id really like to hear what people think as Im toying with the idea of setting up a similar tank.

dorkfish

08-21-2006, 10:17 AM

Do you think those levels of socking are sustainable by anyone other than an expert?

Yes, there sustainable by pretty much anyone who can get the tank established, but is that what's right for the fish? Certainly not.

However the first tank doesn't look or seem to bad (actually would consider something like that myself) - ember/flame tetras wont get much bigger than 2 CM, the fish don't apear to be full grown, that tank has canister filtration and that tank has a fiar amount of plants.

The second tank is just grossly overstocked, no question about it.

invisible1130

08-21-2006, 8:11 PM

UGH! I have a 5 gallon with ONE Betta. I cannot believe that person has all of those fish in there. that makes me so mad too! How can someone be so irresponsible. those poor little things.

fishcatch22

08-21-2006, 8:26 PM

that woman was lying. she could not have a tank like that and no losses or anything like that. shes just too ashamed to admit it.

shaunakadub

08-21-2006, 8:44 PM