florida Tank?

[tricksterpup]

Ok here is my idea for a future possible planted tank. I am actually thinking on setting up a Florida tank.
I am thinking on ordering the following for a 55 gallon tank.
Elassoma okeefenokee (Pygmy sunfish)
Heterandria Formosa (least killiefish)
Jordanella floridae (flag fish)
Lucania goodie (bluefin Killie)

I was also thinking on adding Gambusia affinis (west mosquito fish) but changed my mind do to their aggressive nature but still may add , Fundulus chrysotus , the golden topminnow.
I have been wanting to do a Heterandria Formosa species tank for the past few years but I am still a little shaky on adding Elassoma okeefenokee to the mix. If any one has any information on these guys, please let me know.
Thanks
jim

[jiggerpolebill]

that sounds like a cool setup. where will you be getting your fish? will you catch them live yourself, or will you have to go to somekind of hatchery? whats the max size of the pygmies? please post some pictures if you do a setup like this. im interested in something like this myself with native species, but i know its a little further down the road for me.

[Darkangel]

It sounds like a great set up but I would leave out the Heterandria Formosa. They are small enough, especially the males to be a meal for both the flag fish and the Pygmy sunfish. Is this just a varient of the Elassoma evergladie or a different species? Now all you need is some type of native cat and you are all set. Any small native madtoms that would fit in?

[tricksterpup]

Elassoma okeefenokee to where it stands I am not sure. I could be a subspecies of evergladie. I am not sure. But i believe they are about 1.5 inches in length as an adult. But I am assume that both are identical in nature and fill the same niches in the water.
I am not a big fanatic on madtoms, but I am thinking on bottom feeders on using ghost shrimp and a steady supply of scuds. The scuds should eat the garbage down below and also become a live food source for the fish. (I plan on having a seperate breeding tank for scuds and daphina)
But I will try your advice and try the Heterandria Formosa in a 10 gallon plant tank, maybe with some dwarf cories.
As to where I am getting the fish, i found a website that is selling them.
some info on pygmy sunfish.
http://www.nativefish.org/Articles/Elassoma-evergladei.htm

[jiggerpolebill]

are you getting them through Johnah's Aquarium? it looked like they had most of the species you mentioned.

[tricksterpup]

Ok i have done the price testing between the fish.. from both sites.


well i thought i would edit it instead of doing a new post, went to Johnah's Aquarium and then went to the site i have been veiwing lately.
price difference: Gambusia affinis
from Sachs systems: in lots of 10 - $14.95 with free priority shipping

Price per fish for this species: 1/4 ordered. $15.00. Small fish orders typically range from $25 to $35 total shipping

[spikekillifish]

Go 4 it.

Golden Topminnows (http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish13.html) can be varied in appearance. I have been collecting some spectacular specimens here in the Naples area along canals and ditches. Lots of golden, and turquoise flecks and some have red and orange spots. They are quite active and chase each other around but no fin nipping. They can get big for a minnow I have one in my tank that is going on 4 inches. They are quite hardy and eat anything. All of the fish you mentioned are good choices.

I am new to collecting down here (about 10 months) and am still waiting to catch my first Everglades Pygmy Sunfish (http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish20.html). I thought I did until identification proved the fish to be a Crested Goby (http://www.millevolte.com/aquarium3.html) native to the Bahamas, who's range has expanded naturally through migration. I have an empty 55 cycling right now waiting for a spring bounty of fish, I hope I get some Pygmys as they are supposed to be quite common.

I have kept Least Killifish (http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish15.html) with large American Flag-Fish (http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish02.html), Blue Spotted Sunfish (http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish07.html), Golden Topminnows with no problem. The Dollar Sunfish (http://www.millevolte.com/nativefish10.html) I have (which are 4-5 inches in length) seem to prefer these little guys as a feeder fish. These guys will even breed in a crowded tank as mine did but you need to have plenty of plants and create little hiding spots 4 em. I try to only keep the ones that have the distinctive bright orange dorsal fins.

Good luck with your tank!

[jiggerpolebill]

tricksterpup - what are the 2 sites youre looking at ordering from? Jonah's Aquarium and what else?

[tricksterpup]

Here is the one site that I am very interested in.
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/

jim

[spikekillifish]

Priority shipping could be a problem. The longer the fish are bagged in a box the more stressed out there gonna get, not to mention the length of darkness. They might be alive when U get em but may die shortly after. Most internet aquarium stores send fish overnight. I would order a small inexpensive batch first since they have free shipping and see what happens. I would like to know how it turns out.

[corvettekid82]

:D Wow, Im loving this thread! All the info and links I've gathered! I've been in the newbie forum for a while.. but Im glad I wandered over. I just set up a 55g hex tank (See my other post with its info: Just sharing a pic of my 55g (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7052) ) and its got all native inhabitants that I caught at Deleon Springs in Central Florida. As soon as I finally find a good combination of lighting for pictures, I'll have some great pics of the un-identified sunfish for everyone. Golden Topwater minnows are my weakness... I have a serperate 10 gallon tank with a 2" Warmouth, and a 3" topwater minnow! He's stunning in coloration compaired to my other topwaters in the 55g. Hes got red, blue, gold, yellow and green specks on a greenish-yellow body where as the others have grey bodies and gold flakes. I'd move him over, but the Warmouth and him get along so well and they're extreamly violent twards other fish.. and they seem extreamly healthy so I dont dare disturb that.

[spikekillifish]

Sounds like we are doing the same thing!.:cool: I have some GTMs that are quite striking. I rehabed a few Warmouth and they are calm, intelligent fish for a preditor and very easy to feed. Your GTM will be in trouble however when the warmouth gets big enough. Did you check out the Sunfish on my site? You might identify him there. Can't wait to see your picture.

[spikekillifish]

Vette,

Just looked at your tank, nice job! The Red Eyed Cichlids your talking about, did you collect them?

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by spikekillifish
I would order a small inexpensive batch first since they have free shipping and see what happens. I would like to know how it turns out.

Spike, I will give this a try but may also do the over night. I will have to see, will do this in april when I move to my next place. Thanks to you and Mike (aka Vette) i am getting pretty excited about doing this project. I have emailed sach's systems aquaculture with questions about ordering and they were very prompt and very helpful. So as the customer service end of it, they get high marks.
I will start posting pics as soon as I get moved and start the tank up. I will also give a report card to the companies that I am dealing with in fish or supplies.

Again, I want to thank every one who has responded to this post, you have kept the excitement going and please feel free to contact me for updates if I do not post for a while. Lets keep this going for awhile.

jim.

[corvettekid82]

Spike, according to a book "The Springs Of Florida" from Doug Stamm... the fish I am referring to are called 'Redeye Chubs'. I may be ignorant and just not know that they are a type of Cichlid.. so please let me know if they are ;) Looking at the site posted above... they are listed as: BLUEFIN KILLIFISH (LUCANIA GOODEI) Not all of them have the bright coloration and are just bland ... but they look the same otherwise. And yes, to answer the question I did collect them myself. They're difficult to get them to eat.. but they seem to love freezed dried tubiflex worms and bloodworms.
The one other inhabitant that I've neglected to mention is a "Loggerhead Musk Turtle" that I nursed back to health. I caught him when he was only about an inch long (from front to back of his shell) and he had a fishing hook stuck in his claw. Now, you can't tell it was ever there and he's getting to be close to 4" long. According to the book listed above, he's part of a "subspecies almost endemic to Florida Springs. These negatively buoyant turtles roam spring bottoms, never having to reach the surface for air. Their ability to absorb oxygen through their skin finds them occasionally in underwater caves where no other turtle would normally venture... Loggerheads reach a maximum size of only 5 inches". Very intelligent creature... and will even let you hand feed him (just watch your fingers ;) ) He's gotten the nickname of Jaws because he'll chase your finger around through the glass trying to 'sample' it :D

Edit: Yes, I looked at the sunfish on your site... closest they come is the American Flag one... but they dont have that coloration, just a dark spot in the middle, similar to that one. And to clarify.. the turtle (jaws) has his own 25g Long in the living room.. he's a family pet.

[spikekillifish]

Does't sound like you have a sunfish there. Most sunfish have a dark spot on their gill cover and I know of none that have only one on their flank. Could be a female AFF as they lack the same coloring as males but are still quite colorful when they mature. Redeye Chubs only reach a size of 2 inches. What are the sizes of the fish mentioned?

[corvettekid82]

CRISIS! Tank sprung a leak.. for the 2nd time... its been fine for a month.. but Its down 1/2 way right now till I can work on it in the morning. Everything is fine though, nothing terminal :o

The largest 'redeye chub' is exactly an inch in length. Good thing they're curious and came to see what the ruler was doing pressed against the glass :cool:

[Mr.Jingles]

wow, that is a sweet turtle!

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by corvettekid82
CRISIS! Tank sprung a leak.. for the 2nd time... its been fine for a month.. but Its down 1/2 way right now till I can work on it in the morning. Everything is fine though, nothing terminal :o


Mike, that sucks, but look on the bright side, a buddy had a 150 leak all out.. his place smelled of fish for a week. Lost most of his 10 inch oscars that he had. It was a shame..

Now, that would be a fun tank to turn into a planted tank with the species we've listed. :)

[spikekillifish]

I had a 55 G. completely leak out overnight when I lived in NYC. Woke up in the morning to an empty tank with dead fish at the bottom. It was not a good way to start the day. You should probably drain yours and reseal it all the way around.

[corvettekid82]

Im giving it one more go round... if it leaks again, my parents have offered a 'pity offer': a new tank. So... if the price is right, I may be getting a 100-150 gallon tank with a stand :) I do like the hex tank though, its unique.

[spikekillifish]

Tell your parents it can't be fixed, then put it in the basement or garage for awhile if you can. Get a 150. Then fix the hex and you will have two tanks.:cool:

[Mr.Jingles]

my parents would be mad at me if my tank leaked all over the place, not sympathetic. Plus we dont really have the money to spend an extra couple hundred on a new tank, so even thinking about offering me a new tank wouldn't be an option. consider yourself a lucky person.

[corvettekid82]

Well, my parents are taking into consideration all of the work I've put into the tank. They know its something that makes me happy, so they enjoy it as well. And it only soaked my BED... not the floor or anything else you'd think it would get lol. Im very greatful for my parents and their support :) I went to the LFS today and looked at buying a replacement 55Hex... and YIKES... wholesale they wanted $189.. They let me see the book and I have a tax # so I could buy it from them that way. I'd rather have a LARGE rectangle for that price!

Here's a pic of my large topwater.. the flash decided to fire even when I thought I had it off. Its too bad because he's very active and never ever wants to sit still for the camera :o
Golden Topwater Minnow (http://community.webshots.com/photo/62907986/62908350lIiOiq)

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by corvettekid82
Here's a pic of my large topwater.. the flash decided to fire even when I thought I had it off. Its too bad because he's very active and never ever wants to sit still for the camera :o
Golden Topwater Minnow (http://community.webshots.com/photo/62907986/62908350lIiOiq)


Wow - now that is a fish, it looks like flecks of gold glued onto the fish. Very impressive, maybe I should get ahold of some of these to for my florida tank.
jim

[spikekillifish]

Wow - now that is a fish, it looks like flecks of gold glued onto the fish. Very impressive, maybe I should get ahold of some of these to for my florida tank.

I have several that look like a glittering city at night. Not all Golden Topminnows look the same however and I have found that a truly exceptional specimen occurs in about every 100 or so.

I agree though, as that is a beauty.

[corvettekid82]

Hey guys sorry for the long delay in pics for the sunfish... I think they're AMERICAN-FLAG FISH (JORDANELLA FLORIDAE) .. I got pictures of the smaller one checking out something in the corner of its new home..
First off.. here's where they all reside now:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_b/292000-292999/292024_12_full.jpg
Its a 46 Gallon bow front.. parents totally surprised me with it because of all the trouble I'd had with the hex. Now that thats empty, I can strip it all and re-silicone it :D
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_b/292000-292999/292024_11_full.jpg
The poor tank looks empty now.. I'll just have to go out on another collecting mission and get lots more plants and inhabitants for it.:p
And here is the small sunfish. They do have a little bit of red coloration to them, but it doesnt show up with the camera's flash
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_b/292000-292999/292024_10_full.jpg
I'll be trying to get better pictures.. I have a tripod set up now and the digital camera connected to my TV so I can watch closeups of the fish on the screen while I work. All I have to do is start snapping candid shots :cool:

[spikekillifish]

That is definately a young American-Flag fish. It looks as though you may have a male on your hands and is just begining to develop his flag pattern.

[tricksterpup]

Definatly looks like a America Flag to me too. Wait tell his colors come in.. will be a fantastic fish.
jim

[corvettekid82]

Just a quick question for you all with FL tanks. What temp are you maintaing them at? Im setting mine right at the 78* mark right now.

[spikekillifish]

I keep all my tanks at room temp. (no heater) never falling below 70 F. averaging about 75 F.

78 F. will be fine.

[corvettekid82]

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1013353/1915636/22843381.jpg
Definatly Flag Fish ;)
Here's a link to the album Im making for this Tank (http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=1915636&uid=1013353)

[tricksterpup]

Vette,
Took a look at your album, I love your tank. Most of those fish are what I am planning on getting. The mosquito fish that you have is the black/white G.affinis holbrooki. A subspecies and a very pretty little fish. A little harder to find and pricer than the other.
jim

[corvettekid82]

Originally posted by tricksterpup
Vette,
Took a look at your album, I love your tank. Most of those fish are what I am planning on getting. The mosquito fish that you have is the black/white G.affinis holbrooki. A subspecies and a very pretty little fish. A little harder to find and pricer than the other.
jim

Thanks Jim! The great thing about them is that you can spot them from above the water due to their coloration. I always scoop for these lil guys when I see them. I had 3 at one time (now I have one) but discovered where the other 2 went... They were very aggressive twards eachother (most likely because they were fighting over the females) but never did any damage, just chased eachother so I thought they may have died from stress. But now, I just saw my feeder goldfish EAT a mosquito fish :eek: I love that Goldfish to death, but that was the last straw.. Im seeing if I cant find a neighborhood kid to 'donate' it to and if I cant get it out of here in a day or two.. its off to the LFS with it and they can HAVE it. :RAGE: :rolleyes:

[tricksterpup]

Vette,
From all the articles I have read on G.affinis , they are an aggressive fish and should be kept in a tank separately from everyone else. I guess, ounce for ounce this are one of the toughest meanest fish our there. So if you did a smaller setup with a 10 gallon to 20 long setup heavily planted tank. Which would make a nice breeding tank for these guys.

[corvettekid82]

Well, I made a really long, seperate post earlier before the board went down (for me at least). Long story short.. I went to the springs and caught some new fish! To my surprise I caught a few I've never caught before.
First is a juvenile bass. I think its a black bass, but Im not certain. right now, he's just an inch in lenght so Im not concerned about him eating my other fish.. but I am concerened about getting him to eat non-live food. If he doesnt start feeding, its back to the springs with him.
http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1013353/1915636/26160854.jpg
The second fish (one I thought I'd NEVER catch) is a Tadpole Madtom! Im not sure if this is the proper name for it, but thats what a Florida Springs book I have calls it. This lil guy is only about a half inch long and really did look like a tadpole when I first caught him and he was out of the water. Im really glad I knew what it was because normally I'll use my hand to remove interesting things from my net! This time around I used a leaf and popped him in my bucket. :D Now, I've not seen him since I put him in the tank. I know they're seclusive and noctournal, so I dont expect to see him much at all. BUT, I took pictures of him before I put him in the tank because of this, so what you see is a drinking glass that he's in prior to being released in the community tank.
http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1013353/1915636/26160802.jpg

[tricksterpup]

Hey Vette,
Those are nice additions to your tank. I am just courious when you are gonna add some Heterandria Formosa to that tank. :)
or maybe start up another small one.
jim

[ChilDawg]

W/D. Never mind.

[ChilDawg]

Sorry, wrong place for that post...back to our regularly scheduled Q & A.

Which fish, that could be found in an LFS, would go well with Het. formosa in a FL tank?

[corvettekid82]

Originally posted by tricksterpup

I am just courious when you are gonna add some Heterandria Formosa to that tank. :)
jim

Jim, its already been done :) I've got about 7 of these little guys in there now, and from the looks of it... I probably have a few more. While I had my hand in the tank doing a water change.. a small-fry ;) about a mm in length decided to use my hand as a cave :D Cute little buggers... I hope theres enough plants for them to hide in untill they can fend for themselves or else that Bass may have some tasty treats in store

edit: you guys sure are giving me a crash course in scientific names ... if I didnt have google, I'd be in trouble! http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/ups/dvx_rune/lol.gif

[tricksterpup]

Elassoma okeefenokee (Pygmy sunfish) IF you dont have one get one.. lol
Heterandria Formosa (least killiefish)
Jordanella floridae (flag fish)
Lucania goodie (bluefin Killie)
Fundulus chrysotus (golden topminnow)
Gambusia Affinis holbrooki (Mosquito Fish)
how is that for a list of scientific names. I dont know the madtom but this pretty much what you have in your tanks. And i am soooo jealous. I had a plan on the type of tanks i want.. endlers and merry widows, which i just got!!! whoo hooo. But i have yet to set up my tank for the Formosa and Elassoma. grrr. i gotta order them first. But soon, yes very soon i shall have my florida tank and then next the world. BWWAAHAAHAHAHAHA ahemm.. ok. i am fine now.
As for live food.. i would try some daphina. A place you can get them is
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/
the shop is located at St. Augustine.
jim

[corvettekid82]

Thanks for the info Jim ;) ChilDawg gave me some good leads on what the madtom may be. Here are the scientific names he gave me in a seperate thread:
Here are the Maddies of FL:
Tadpole (Notorus gyrinus)
Speckled (N. leptacanthus)
Black--Panhandle-dweller (N. funebris)

So far what I've found for my bass would be Micropterus
Salmoides floridanus (subspicies of FL with 14 abdominal vertebrae)

And then theres that mystery 'shiner' thats still in there that was mentioned way back in this thread. Someone suggested that it was a blacknosed shiner.. but to tell you the truth, it looks JUST like the fish in the homepage for AquariaCentral.com! (the one right next to the freshwater info. I'll look into that more :)

[tricksterpup]

Vette-
that fish on the front page looks to be a SAE. The ones you are thinking are not. But what you could do is ask your local DNR. They may be able to help you. Unless someone else can help you. Maybe spike may have a lead on this fish.
jim

[ChilDawg]

This one? That's an SAE, I think...http://www.aquariacentral.com/graphics/bspecies.gif

[corvettekid82]

Yup, that one! Its a siamese algae eater, correct? I'll take a few more pics and post them in a moment. He was caught in the SAME location as the madtom... are they natives to FL? I'd never caught one before.
>flash flash< and here's the pics:

http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1013353/1915636/26254815.jpg
http://pic7.picturetrail.com/VOL188/1013353/1915636/26254811.jpg

They were taken as he was sucking pieces of algae off the glass where my CO2 is injected. Coincidence?

Edit: After seaching for pics... he's not a SAE.. he looks more like the False SAE's ... but still not quite the same.. and blacknosed shiners (http://www.umich.edu/~bio440/fieldtrips97/fibnsh.html) are a bit different too, mostly the anal fin.. this ones compleatly triangular, the drawing isnt. The seach goes on!

[ChilDawg]

SAEs and false SAEs are native to Asia, not FL. However, they could easily be there...

[tricksterpup]

Well this looks like it could be the Red eye chub, Notropis harperi or one of the many shiner species that are found in Florida. http://floridafisheries.com/images/fish-pic/not-har.jpg

Vette, check out this site.. this would be a very helpful tool for you and your collections.
http://floridafisheries.com/fishes/sci-name.html

jim

[tricksterpup]

WHoooo hoooo..
I just got my first pair of Jordanella floridae (flag fish) in a planted 10 gallon tank right now. :)
The male had some incredible color to him. I was very impressed.
jim

[corvettekid82]

Awesome! Pics pics!! :)

[spikekillifish]

I am glad to see you guys are enjoying your native Aquariums!!!

Just thought I would share a couple more pics from my native 30G.

Golden Topminnow (http://www.millevolte.com/aquarium6.html)

Crested Goby (http://www.millevolte.com/aquarium4.html)

-Spike

[tricksterpup]

Spike,
those are some really gorgous fish. I just recently, in the last 2 weeks, picked up Pygmy Killie Fish, Leptolucania ommata (i have also seen it called the Lemon Killie because of its yellow coloration.) and Least Killifish Heterandria formosa . They are both incredible fish, just what small tank owners would want. My Pygmies are getting fat on a diet of newly hatched brine shrimp and small daphnia.
I am now currently waiting for some Gambusia affinis Holbrooki. I have a QTank waiting for them as soon as they come in. :)

jim
Ps.. i just got some batteries for my digital camera, so hopefully pictures soon.