Reversing low PH... but i cannot afford PH up

[punkie pishie]

I'm as broke as can be rite now and i just took a PH test to my tank and i almost fell out of my room! IT WAS YELLOW... its usualy blue... i've never had a PH drop like this before.... what can i do... I'm about to clean my filter out b/c it has this brown alge growin on it i think... can this be the problem? i cannot run out any buy PH up rite now so i need quick at home fixes plz:eek:

[Faramir]

Well that's OK, because pH up isn't what you want.

Can you supply as much of the following information as you can:

Current pH (not the colour, the figure)
Normal pH
Tapwater pH
Current KH
Tapwater KH

Frequency and amount of water changes.

Tank size and number/size of fishes.

Fish only or planted.

There are several possibilities; I doubt the algae is responsible.

[punkie pishie]

current ph is about 6.0
normal ph is about 7.5
tap ph is about 7.5

I don't nnow about the KH

the tank is a 29gal with 4 goldfish and one minnow

its usualy fish only but i put some of my plants from my 10 gal into the 29gal over nite because i was cleaning out my 10 gal. the ph in the 10 gal is ususly abouy 7.5 also

[wetmanNY]

Take an empty peanut butter jar to the lfs and get them to fill it with "crushed coral" reeftank substrate. That's all bits of shell and coral-- calcium carbonate. An amount like two tablespoons in your filter will help stabilize the pH.

The upside is that it's easy to grow plants in our water, if you'll give them 2 watts per gallon of light.

In our very soft NYC water, filter cleaning is a must, or biological processes will drive down the pH-- as you've seen. Clean your filter weekly in water that you've siphoned out of the tank as part of your usual partial water change regime.

[Faramir]

And what about the water changes? Something is dropping your pH, and I think I know what it is.

Do you know the nitrate level?

[punkie pishie]

thanks wetman... i can get cruched coral from my school (I mange all the tanks at Beach Channel high) i am not a religous water changer... i do it maybe every 3 weeks. (shame on my i know) I'm on the process of making a DIY gravel siphon using a small plastic bottle, tubing, and a foutain filter at school. i've been so busy between school work, school tanks and my own 10 gal breader which is housing some juvies and newbies that i've slacked off a bit on my tank duties to my 29 gal...

and no i don't know anything but the ph

[Faramir]

I strongly suspect that it is your infrequent water changes that are at the root of the problem. Your nitrification process uses up the carbonate buffer, allowing the pH to drop. This can be replenished using coral sand, but you would do better to increase water changes in order to dilute nitrate and dissolved organic compounds (DOCs).

[Ordovician]

What about baking soda. Seems like the one time I added crushed coral to my filter it screwed everything from the start.


Hey wetman......I don't know if you know or not, but crushed coral is actually not made of calcite. Its a polymorph of it named aragonite. Both are CaCO3 one is just not as stable.

[Aquaskilz]

First of all goldfish are are very dirty fish. But in any rate you have to do water changes regularly! This may also bring your PH up.

[wetmanNY]

Ordovician (good name!) I remember that aragonite is just a little more soluble than calcite-- good for punkipishie's purpose. The crystals are differently alligned. in the lattice.

Though I called it "calcium carbonate" actually all biological CaCO3 has some magnesium mixed in, too, doesn't it? A less than perfect lattice...

[Fishiebusiness]

Originally posted by Faramir
I strongly suspect that it is your infrequent water changes that are at the root of the problem. Your nitrification process uses up the carbonate buffer, allowing the pH to drop. This can be replenished using coral sand, but you would do better to increase water changes in order to dilute nitrate and dissolved organic compounds (DOCs).

Agreed, meager water changes every three weeks is definitely not enough for a 29 gallon with that kind of fish stock.

Do 30-50% every week and then if you still have pH troubles, start doing the crushed coral thing.

[wetmanNY]

1. Nitrification uses up the buffer, and pH drops.

2. Lowered pH levels repress the nitrifiers.

3. Ammonia builds up harmlessly, because it is virtually all ionized to NH4.

4. Water changes replenish the buffer, instantly converting ionized NH4 to toxic ammonia.

5. Fishes die of ammonia poisoning, seen as "pH shock."

Don't let this happen! Use some AmQuel before you do those healthy water changes, p.pishie!

[Skittyfish]

Punkie- I hope you have better luck getting just a jar full of crushed coral. We have stingy LFS's here. I had to buy a 15 lb bag for $18. Should last a decade...

[Ordovician]

Wetman.....its funny you ask that. I'm currently doing probe analyses of limestones and dolomites, and yes most calcite has some mg. In fact its standard procedure for probe analyses that you test for Sr, Mn, Fe, and Mg when you study carbonates. The limestones around here that I'm working on are fairly Mn rich and very Mg rich. All echinoderms precipitate their shells with hi Mg calcite, but it often becomes low mg(standard) calcite after diagenesis. However, we are talking about very low, low percentages here. On what I'm doing, I don't think the total of Fe, Mn, Mg, and Sr are greater then 2% weight oxidie in any sample of calcite.

[Faramir]

Originally posted by wetmanNY
1. Nitrification uses up the buffer, and pH drops.

2. Lowered pH levels repress the nitrifiers.

3. Ammonia builds up harmlessly, because it is virtually all ionized to NH4.

4. Water changes replenish the buffer, instantly converting ionized NH4 to toxic ammonia.

5. Fishes die of ammonia poisoning, seen as "pH shock."

Don't let this happen! Use some AmQuel before you do those healthy water changes, p.pishie!

The above has to be borne in mind.

Most test kits measure both NH3 and NH4+ though, so as long as an ammonia test is done first, and reads 0, then the above scenario will not occur.

[wetmanNY]

'zackly!