Chaetostoma Eggs

[mwood322]

Okay,

So I have 4 chaetostoma spec. cats (2 diff species) in a 30 gallon river tank type set-up, water temp is about 70, tankmates white clouds, and 4 river loaches. Haven't done water tests yet.

I picked up a rock to move some decorations, and there was a chaeto stuck to it, not surprising. It let go and swam away, but there were eggs under the rock, good sized yellow eggs. No signs of fungus and they look viable. Any suggesstions on what to do.

I'm worried about the loaches eating the eggs. I don't know if I should remove them or not. I could set-up a 10 gallon with water from the tank adn get a powerhead to circulate water over the eggs.

I really didn't expect them to breed, and was actually considering auctioning them off at my Aquarium society's next meeting. Since I have 2 pairs of diff species I think I even know exactly which ones are resonsible.

Anyone have experience or advice? :confused:

--Mia

[mwood322]

Well, I moved the eggs to an empty ten gallon. Took about 5 gallons of water from their original tank, made sure they were submerged the whole time. Dug up a heater and an airpump. The airstone is close to the eggs to simulate the male fanning them. Boy was he pissed when I stole his eggs. I gave him a new rock, but he really didn't want to let go.

I'm slightly worried about fungus, and wonder if I should treat the tank just in case. I really want these guys to hatch, and I've never done this before...

I mostly end up with baby egg-scatters, barbs, rainbows, minnows, or even tetras.

--Mia

[ChilDawg]

Usually methyl blue is used in order to keep eggs in a breeding tank from fungusing--this is standard prophylactic practice, and I would guess that doing it would not hurt your eggs at all.

[mwood322]

Update:

Well, this morning they looked about the same as last night. I'm keeping a towel over the tank just in case they are light sensitive. Ended up not adding any fungus prevenative, as I couldn't find any, and all the eggs look viable. When I got back from work I checked them again. Last night they had thin white critters in each egg, vaguely fish shaped, basically a head area and a tail area. Now the little guys are moving in the eggs, basically whipping back and forth. Really Cool. :D

So I seem to be doing okay. I have no idea how long it might take the eggs to hatch. Kind of hope I'm here to watch.

I'll keep all the lurkers updated though. ;)

--Mia

[mwood322]

Well, not much happened today. Around 6 pm I checked the eggs. One died and had started to fungus. The others look good, and I removed that one. It was the one farthest from the airstone and closest to any light source, so that may have contributed. I've added a few gallons of water to their tank.

The little guys are sort of clearish now, and the yellow portion of the eggs have noticeably reduced. They have eyes, or at least dots about where eyes would be and still wiggle around inside the eggs quite a bit.

--Mia

[mwood322]

Well,

They're hatching. Semes I've been taking good enough care. I've added about 2 gallons of new dechloribnated water over the last 2 days. The had very nice looking eyes yesterday, and look like tiny little sticks attached to balls now. Some wiggling, but not as much as in the eggs. They are about the same size as the eggs. Seems like hatching time is about 4 days, give or take. I found the eggs 4 days ago in 2 hours.

--Mia

[mwood322]

Well,

I have a few crappy pics, but people might be interested.

Eggs from day I found them.
http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pics/eggs1.jpg
Eggs from earlier today.
http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pics/eggs2.jpg
Some of the fry now.
http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pics/fry1.jpg

They are definitely going to be absorbing their yolk sacs for a while, so not worried about food yet. I have lots of tanks with different kinds of algae problems, so I'm going to root around, mainly algae and java moss will be offteed, alog with some Liquifry (lazy person baby food).

--Mia

[125gJoe]

Hi Mia,
Thanks for sharing the pics! And, they are not "crappy" pics at all.. This is one of the rare times I've seen catfish eggs and the fry..

[mwood322]

Well, no new pics, but some new info.

Last night a total of 3 eggs had hatched, and I was a bit concerned about the rest of the eggs, as there was little movement or activity. I decided to give tham a little time to try for themselves before I bothered them. Today, still only 3 had hatched. So I gave in. Going on info from Farlowella spec cats and twig cats, the males normally help "hatch" the fry.

I basically picked up the rock and swished it back and forth in the tank. That got the little guys moving again. Within 10 minutes almost all of the fry had hatched. They don't seem stressed by the swishing, and are acting much like the other already hatched fry. I also turned the light on.

Also another thing I noticed. Most baby fish have extrememly small mouths, you can't even see them. These guys have large mouths, obviously visible to the naked eye. I wonder if that will make feeding them easier??

The fry do not attach to objects like I expected but float around or lay on their sides a lot, very uncontrolled in their movements. I expect normally the male would corral them in a group and make sure they were well oxygenated.

--Mia

[VoodooChild]

Hey....they ARE kinda cute. Where did you get the Chaetostoma, online or LFS? And I've never dealt with them before. Do you have live plants and do they harm them? Thanks and good luck!

[mwood322]

Basic info on Chaetostoma catfish (Wide-Mouth, or Rubber Lip pleco)

Very good algae eater from cooler fast flowing rivers in South America. Leaves most plants alone, likes rockwork and a good hiding place. Normally readily available. I picked up my first 2 at Petsmart, and my other 2 at a LFS.

Can be combative with other plecos or conspecifics. I'm going to try to get another bunch that look like the set I have and see if I can get a colony going.

Very adaptable, and as long as it has a hiding place can survive very adverse conditions. These guys weren't always catered to. They used to be cleanup fish.

--Mia

[mwood322]

Here's a pic of the male...
http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pics/chaeto_maleB1.jpg

--Mia

[mwood322]

Small update:

The little guys are starting to stick to things, mainly under their hatching rock. All still have yolk sacs, and bumble around when they attempt to swim.

As to food:

Any suggesstions would be much appreciated,. I expect them to eat tomorrow or the next day and want to be ready. I'm so far planning on spinach, romaine lettuce, very softened cucumber or zucchinni, crushed peas, algae covered plants, java moss, liquifry, finely mashed paste of flake, and algae covered rocks from my other river tank.

Their mouths look very big compared to most fry I've had before.

--Mia

[wayne]

I can only reply from my experiences breeding ancistrus. My biggest problem seems to be keeping them fed adequately - I use crushed, dampened flake, bit of shrimp and bits of boiled veg and load them up. I really overfeed, but it's ok , I keep them in a pretty small tank and do lots of water changes twice a day. Try running a sponge filter - all sort of stuff gets stuck to it, and they can browse on the surface of the sponge.
I had problems with an internal power filter in that they would crawl inside it and get killed. I removed it and found the sponge much better.
Good work , good photos! Ask on the forums on planetcatfish.com, they might have some experience.

[mwood322]

Update.

Well I have about 5-6 six little guys left. They're about 3/8 of an inch long. Most are gray, though they become almost clear when frightened. For some reason their bellies are black when full.

They seem hardy enough now, but a few didn't make it during the changeover to food. The ones I have seem to graze the rocks a bit, and seem mainly interested in liquifry and ground up flakes. Tried veggies, but very little response. I'm kind of treating these guys like hillstream loaches, in that they don't actually eat algae, just the little things that live in it.

--Mia

[mwood322]

Well, not a big update but a few more observations. They are exactly like miniature bulldog catfish. They stick to rocks extremley well, and hide most of the day. Every once in a while I catch one on the glass.

They have also moved beyond liquifry for the moment and seem most interested in ground up flakes. I've seen some chasing it, kind of like stalking real live food. I guess the nice thing about current loving fish is the current can trick them into thinking the food is alive.

Total is up around 7-8 now, as once I started the flakes in earnest they started coming out more.

--Mia

[mwood322]

http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pics/fry2.jpg

http://www.petresources.net/fish/catfish/pics/fry3.jpg

Pics as of Today..

--Mia

[OrionGirl]

Lovely! You really should get in touch with the fellows over at Planet Catfish and see if they would be interested in publishing your efforts. Quality pics of the eggs and fry are rare!

[Ronne]

I completely agree with Oriongirl, you have some great documentation there. Very interesting to see the whole process layed out, well done!

[wetmanNY]

Mia Woodman! it's been six weeks and what? no more excellent close-up photos of baby Chaetostoma? I'm hoping there hasn't been a disaster.

More details! more details!

[mwood322]

Hi,

I know it's been a long time for an update. I lost all of their first attempt at fry. I had to go on a vacation, and they got fed, but not enough water changes.

I did however set the pair up in their own tank alone, and while cleaning today spotted some new babies, which look much better than my last batch. The adults don't seem to be bothering the babies, so I'm planning on just upping feeding and water changes and leaving them in there to see what happens.

--Mia

[Hebdizzle]

are there any visible differences between the different genders?

thanks
aaron

[mwood322]

Yes,

Males have largwer pelvic fins, shaped almost like diamonds when spread out. Also, males have much more obvious lips, and larger heads. This is mostly when 2 inches or above. I'd show a pic, but the male is more elusive than the female.

--Mia

[mwood322]

This morning I actually spotted a chaeto baby in teh forst growout tank. it has other fish in it now, but he's about 3/4 of an inch long, and seems healthy enough beyond a bit stunted.

--Mia

[ChilDawg]

Cool, Mia!

We're waiting on tenterhooks, or something more similar and tangible to those of us (myself included) who have no clue as to what they are, for pix of the baby Chaeto! Does he still look like the pix from earlier in this thread?

(But we're patient, as we don't know whether or not waiting on tenterhooks should hurt!!!)