Failed at first attempt to increase dH. Need hints.

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asincero

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Jan 16, 2006
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I'm trying to keep my mollies alive. I read that they need hard water of around 20 to 30 dH. I tested my water, and it came out to 4 dH (no wonder they keep dying on me). So I'm trying to increase the general hardness.

I tried putting coral gravel in my canister filter. I have a Rena XP2, and filled half of the lower basket with nothing but coral gravel. I figured this was enough. I tested the water 24 hours later and to my disappointment, the GH still came out to 4 dH :mad:! Does it take longer than 24 hours to raise the GH? Do I need more coral gravel?

The only other stuff I have in the filter is half a basket of black foam sponges, half a basket full of ceramic cylinders, and half a basket full of filter floss, if thats meaningful.

What other methods can I employ to raise the hardness?
 
Is there anything wrong with the fish? What's your pH?

Crushed coral should push your GH up a bit over time but it has a really big impact on your KH. KH and GH are two different things. Its important that you've got a solid handle on the chemistry before you start tinkering with the water.

General Hardness is a measure of Calcium and Magnesium as proxies for TDS. KH is a meassure of carbonates. Crushed coral is Calcium carbonate. SeaChem Equilibrium will boost GH.

If the fish are fine I'd skip the mods.
Fishbase.org has the native range of Sailfins as 13-19 dH.
 
carpguy said:
Is there anything wrong with the fish? What's your pH?

Crushed coral should push your GH up a bit over time but it has a really big impact on your KH. KH and GH are two different things. Its important that you've got a solid handle on the chemistry before you start tinkering with the water.

General Hardness is a measure of Calcium and Magnesium as proxies for TDS. KH is a meassure of carbonates. Crushed coral is Calcium carbonate. SeaChem Equilibrium will boost GH.

If the fish are fine I'd skip the mods.
Fishbase.org has the native range of Sailfins as 13-19 dH.
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No, my fish really aren't fine. I keep losing my mollies, and I find it very irritating because these fish are supposed to be hardy fish! Although, I haven't lost any of my black mollies yet. The mollies I have left seem to be doing fine now, but I know they're on borrowed time.

All of my other water parameters seem to be right on the money. Ammonia is 0, nitrites is 0. Nitrates is around 10ppm I think. pH is 7.8. Water temperature is around 78 degrees F. After spending a few weeks googling for an answer and going to various aquarists blogs, I discovered that mollies like hard water. They also apparently like brackish water, but it was suggested to me to see if my water hardness was within the correct range for mollies first before I try going brackish. Especially since I've got 3 yo-yo loaches in the tank as well. (I'm going to be giving my loaches away soon though so it'll be a molly-only tank soon). Well, after testing my water and discovering that the GH was at 4 dH, I figured that must have been the problem all along. My water is too soft.

So thats why I'm trying to harden my water up. Before I added coral gravel to the filter, my GH was around 4 dH. I also measured carbonate hardness and it too was at 4. I then added coral gravel to the filter and waited 24 hours. I expected to see some kind of change, but both parameters, general and carbonate hardness, were still at 4. I'm not sure what gives here. Do I need to wait a little longer?

The molly profile at:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile24.html

says mollies like water hardness in the range of 20.0 to 35.0 dH. I wonder whos right. :huh:

I saw some really cool yellow sailfins at the LFS the other day. I'd love to get a bunch of them, but at $6.00 a piece they're kind of pricey for mollies. I'd really be mad if those guys became floaters too. I want to perfect my molly-keeping skills first. I eventually want to start breeding them. But the first step is to keep them alive for more than a couple weeks. I've learned quite a bit in the past 5 months, but apparently I still have a crap load to learn.
 
Your pH is high enough that you may not be seeing much from the Crushed Coral. I use it in an acidic tank and it dissolves fairly slowly (I like this about it).

If you're just looking to increase GH I'd try Seachem's Equilibrium or (cheaper) Barr's GH Booster from Greg Watson.

I'd also look into Seachem's Livebearer Salt. Try to get some feedback on that. Might be more what you're looking for.

I'm a more of a acidic softwater type. Don't know much about Livebearers, Brackish, or alkaline water. Just hopped in for the chemistry.
 
Seems a little off but not by all that much… margin of error type stuff. Based on the CO2 charts I would've figured somewhere in the vicinity of 7.6.

Asincero, any chance you can find your local water report? Try doing the hardness tests with twice as much water and halving the result…
 
Something is off with your testing or the tests themselves. How is your pH 7.8 with a KH of only 4 degrees? That does not track - I would expect a pH od 7.4 max or less.
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RTR, If I take Distilled water and Raise the Kh to 3 dKH It settles out at 7.6-7.8 for me evey time. So to me this seems about normal for water with virtually nothing else in it, I could be very wrong though. That is aireated water that has had adequate time to mix.



asincero, To your original question, if you want to increase GH only, Calcium can be dosed via many forms, Gregg watson sells Caclium sulphate, Caclium Chloride is available in several different products as well. I use Ice melter for my calcium.

Magnesium is also available in several different products, but Epsom Salt is about as cheap as it gets. Epsom salt is MgSO4 and works quite well for me.

I agree that your pH is high enough you won't see much out of the coral, it certainly won't hurt to leave it in your filter, but even with pretty acidic water, you won't see a lot of change in a 24 hour period. You'll want to give it a week before you really will know how fast it works.

Mollies can and will live in Brackish, but it's not needed, I'd be wary of any product Labeled "Livebearer Salt" . Read the ingredients carefully. Mineral Salts are often confused with NaCL in this hobby. If Livebearer salt is essential earth mineral salts and not Sodium Chloride then it will raise your hardness and be good for your fish. If it is heavy in NaCl then I would avoid it. There is a huge myth in this hobby about mollies needing salt, Be wary of that myth.

Dave
 
daveedka said:
I'd be wary of any product Labeled "Livebearer Salt" . Read the ingredients carefully. Mineral Salts are often confused with NaCL in this hobby. If Livebearer salt is essential earth mineral salts and not Sodium Chloride then it will raise your hardness and be good for your fish. If it is heavy in NaCl then I would avoid it.
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They seem to share your opinion…
Seachem link said:
Live Bearer Salt™ is more than just a simple sodium chloride product… Live Bearer Salt™ is a safe and effective alternative to the sodium chloride based aquarium salts so prevalent on the market today. Live Bearer Salt is a blend of salts that contains a minimal amount of sodium chloride unlike other freshwater aquarium salts which are nothing but sodium chloride.
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There was a link back there…

In general I have a good opinion of Seachem. I use Equilibrium in my tank to boost the GH a bit for the plants and have used several other products of theirs. In particular, I know nothing about Mollies and haven't used the Livebearer Salt: I'd try to get some feedback on it from other Brackish or Livebearer folks. Or experiment.

You can contact Seachem directly and ask about it but I think the exact ingredients are in "secret formula" territory.
 
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