New tank-Noob-Cycling-Help-Questions

[Mantis_22]

~~~~I know this is a long post but please take the time to read it and help out a noob aquarist starting a new fish tank... :)

Hey everyone, A week ago I decided I was going to restart my Aquarium Hobby. If you would like to ask why my previous attempt did not work I blame it on the Junky Fish Retailer downtown for telling me Amquel does not affect the cycling process/plus affects test kits results. And to top it that they gave me the most terrible fish advice ever. As for now anways I am restarting this fish tank and I have learned alot of new things that I never did know previous till research. Right now I am into (Day 5) of this new tank. I have tooken every precaution and measure to make sure this puppy cycles and runs okay. This is what I am running and what I have in this new tank...

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Physical/Chemical Items
- 10GL Tank (Cleaned)
- Medium Airstone Strip (Runs 24/7, Gives good Oxygen to fish I hear)
- 3 Bags of Pre-Washed Gravel (Color-Brown) (Size-Small)
- 1 Articial Amodious Plant
- 1 Medium Hollow Stone with Artficial Plant integrated
- Woodland Plant Background
- 1 Flouresant Light Lid (Runs 4 hours a day)
- 1 Basic Power/Filter 5-15 with Charcoal/Padded Microbe Filter
(I will replace filter every 2-3 weeks)
- 1 50 Watt Heater (Running on TEMP 75-76 Degrees)
- Syphoning (The man at the new fish store said to Syphon 1 Time a month during Cycling and normal running)
- I feed the fish 3-5 small Flakes Each (Brine Shrimp Flakes) Daily
- I scoop up with a net all of the excess food that falls to the bottom (if any).
- Fish Type, 4 Cherry Barbs (3 Small, 1 Large)
- The only Chemical I use is PRIME Water Conditioner (Supposed to be one of the best on the market)
- I will add PRIME Water Conditioner to the water first before putting it in the fish tank every water change.
- Also I took a 24 Hour period before adding the fish to the tank.
- Tests were also done before adding the fish.
- And yes I did put the bag I bought the fish in in the water to align the Temperature and poured a shot glass size of water every 10 minutes to mix and regulate PH..

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I do the following Water Tests Daily...
PH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate

The PH and Ammonia Test kits are Doc-Welfish Brand and the Nitrite/Nitrate Kits are Hagen Brand...

Here are the current results from the 5 days of the new tank setup. (I know its only 5 days but its a start) *It should take 1 week to achieve Ammonia if im correct*

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DAY 1 - (MARCH 21)
PH - 7.6
AMMONIA - O PPM
NITRITE - Did not test
NITRATE - Did not test
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DAY 2- (MARCH 22)
PH - 7.1
AMMONIA - O PPM
NITRITE - 0.3 (low or none)
NITRATE - Did not test
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DAY 3 - (MARCH 23)
PH - 7.6
AMMONIA - O PPM
NITRITE - 0.3 (low or none)
NITRATE - 0 (low or none)
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DAY 4 - (MARCH 24)
PH - 7.6
AMMONIA - O PPM
NITRITE - 0.3 (low or none)
NITRATE - 0 (low or none)
================

***I will post my daily results here for everyone, Please inform me if anything needs to be changed or if i am doing alright so far. I will keep you guys updated ASAP***

Thanks for your help everyone,
Mantis_22 :D

[Ray-Ray]

Looks good.

You put - Syphoning (The man at the new fish store said to Syphon 1 Time a month during Cycling and normal running)

I do a 20% water change once every week in my tank.Good luck!

[OrionGirl]

Actually, since you are cycling with fish, you want to do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites from getting high. I would prefer to see ammonia below 1, and nitrites kept below .5. This will not slow the cycle down--afterall, if the test can detect the toxin, there's still plenty available for bacteria, and you will be removing less water as more bacteria become established. Keeping the levels low will reduce, though not eliminate, the harm done to your fish during this period. Bacteria attach themselves to substrate, filter media, ect, so removing water as needed and cleaning the substrate weekly (ie, during one of the daily changes, go over the bottom) will not hamper their development.

[Mantis_22]

So I should Syphon The water every week during cycling?
Im guessing I should do it tomorrow since it would be the first week.

Also, when I change the water I understand I Put conditioner in the water im about to put into the tank. But should I worry about the Temperature/PH differences. Or is it safe to just insert it after I condition the water. I try to keep the temp of the water within range of feel of my finger :)

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Todays Results...
PH-7.6
AMMONIA-0PPM
NITRITE-3 (Low or none)
NITRATE-5
==================

One last question, how long will it take for ammonia to start coming?

[OrionGirl]

Your conditioning technique is fine. As for matching temp, there are a couple of thoughts on this one. I don't match temp when I do water changes on my tanks. The difference between the new water and the tank is somewhere around 10-15 degrees, and will drop the overall temp in the tank maybe 1-3 degrees on a 20% water change. I've never had a problem. Some people will match temps they way you describe--it feels pretty close, so is good enough. Others will use a heater and thermometer and get it exactly the same. My advice: go with what makes you comfortable. Drastic changes are bad, but small fluctuations won't hurt most species. Some, like discus, are more sensitive and warrant special treatment. For now, the barbs will be fine with 'close enough'.

Yep, I would siphon at least daily. The reason is that right now, your bacteria bed is small (or non-existant), so any additional source of waste will be a stress to it, and to the fish. Siphoning will remove solid wastes, similar to how you're scooping out the uneaten foods before they can decay and contribute.

Just noticed you're additional question--the appearance of ammonia. It really depends. The ammonia is primarily from the respiration process of the fish, and so it is there right now, just not in significant amounts. It will build up to testable concentrations eventually, but there's not a solid way to determine exactly how long that will take (not that I know of, anyhoo!) when cycling with fish.

[Mantis_22]

Here are the daily updates...

======================
(MARCH 26) - *DAY 7*

PH-76
AMMONIA-0PPM
NITRITE-0.3 (looks more colored now)
NITRATE-5 (looks more colored now)
======================

In about 10 Minutes Im going to do a 20% water change.
It should lower Those Nitrite/Nitrate counts after I syphon.

I have a question though, During the cycling process arent you supposed to see ammonia in the first stage, the nitrite, then nitrate? Im kinda confused because I have No indications of Ammonia but I do have signs of NItrate/Nitrite in the Tank. Can someone help me on understanding this? Also when should I change the filter media next? Next wed will be 2 weeks so should I change the filter media then or wait 3 weeks.?

Thanks.. :)

[OrionGirl]

It's not unheard of for the nitrites to show up first. The exact science of this process isn't precisely understood--for example, no one is completely sure exactly which bacteria are responsible for metabolizing the nitrogen products. You should be able to take your water to an LFS for testing, just to double check. Also, if you need to be sure you're testing at the same time each day in order to better compare results.

You shouldn't change the media filter at all, unless it is falling apart (gasp!). It should be removed, and cleaned gently in de-chlorinated water (the water you've just cycled out of the tank will work well--if you use a bucket! If not, just any old tub of clean water). Once the tank is cycled, you can be a bit more energetic with your cleaning. I use sponges only, and I scrub the heck out of them, no problems. Ths filter media is the prime location for your bacteria colonies. Replacing the media removes the colonies--bad news. If possible, it's best to have two sets of media in there, so you can alternate replacements when the sponge/floss had reached the point where it can't be cleaned.

[gidget21]

ok to all this cycling stuff when i had my first aquarium i did the the 20% water changes as reccomended and it spiked my nitrate worse so be very careful and my nitrate got so bad i could never get it under control no matter what i did. so i bought a product called nitra-zorb worked wonders. then i changed my filter to a fluval 204 and once again my nitarte spiked up again and then not even the nitra-zorb would work so i gave up and got rid of the whole thing and started over new and fresh.i found out that doing water changes can help the nitrate or make it worse so you hve to be very careful and test regularly. i had the same problem you did my ammonia was reading nothing and my nitrite and nitrate wen through the roof and then no nitrite and just nitrate then the next day it was nitrite and nitrate again and yes i did the tests correctly and i had someone do them a second time to be sure and they got the same results i did it was so screwed up but i never had any amonia in the water. so as i said be very careful with those water changes it can aggravate the problem.

[OrionGirl]

Unless your water source has nitrates, doing a water change will not increase the nitrates in the water. At most, the water change may disturb trapped particles that bacteria then break down into nitrite or nitrate. Proper cleaning of the substrate during the water change prevents this.

This is chemistry, not magic. While the exact process isn't known, nitrites and nitrates don't just suddenly appear in water. Some source must exist--either fish, rotting organics, etc.

[Mantis_22]

Okay the day before yesterday I did a 15-20% water change.
The results yesterday were the regular.
Today I done tests and I starting to ammonia rise.
It is at 1PPM
and my nitrite is 0.3
my nitrate is 5
PH is 7.6
Im gonna change the filter at the 4 week point
Also should I do a water change tomorrow or should I wait till the 2nd week mark?

Till later,
Mantis_22

[pinballqueen]

The more water changes, the better. Do it every day if you can. It will keep the toxins at a manageable level in your water and keep your fish as comfortable as can be expected.

[Mantis_22]

Today I checked my water stats...

Its week 2 and I am starting to see a significant difference in the numbers.

My ammonia is completely gone 0PPM
my Nitrite is Sky high and my nitrate follows.
My PH is starting to lighten up in the blue sector which gives me another clue.

So im guessing stage 1 is done for now.
The barbs i have in this tank have significantly grew in 2 weeks already. I feed them a variety foods and they love all of them.

I did a water change today and added a little project ive been wanting to do for a awhile now. What I did was this...

I have one of those 5-15 Aquatech Powerfilters you can get at Walmart. Well since this is not a biological filter as such everytime you replace the filter/carbon media (Its composed together as one) to throw away because its dirty you lose all that beneficial bacteria that has colonized on it. So I had an Idea, cut a piece of Biological Filter Sponge (Got it at the fish store for cheap). And cut it to fit perfectly to sit on the exit of the water resevoir of my power filter. In my opinion it should work out well since I will be replacing the filter cartride every 3-4 weeks. The sponge I chose is 100% safe for the tank too. I put some Byo-Zyme and some Liquid Bacteria on the sponge then put it in place in the filter. I hope my little Idea works. It should as from what I have seen on other filters designs. All the fresh clean water that exits the filter hits the sponge so it should. Everyone give your idea and opinion, do you think this will actually be beneficial and could there be better ways to work this out?

I have a picture included of it.. :)

-Mantis_22

[Mantis_22]

bump...

[Mantis_22]

can someone help me out???? or give opinions????

[OrionGirl]

You can use your method, or do without the cartridge entirely and custom cut a sponge to fill the same compartment. Then you just rinse the sponge really well instead. However, depending on the cartridge type, there is no need to replace that often. If you are using a cartridge with carbon, the carbon will cease functioning in 3-5 days and just become another place for bacteria to thrive. If you rinse the whole thing off to remove any large debris, you can keep using the same filter for many moons (think I've used the same one for 6 months in a lightly stocked tank before trashing it and going with just a sponge).

If you are using a cartridge that contains some sort of ammonia treatment, once the tank is cycled there is no need for this stuff, as it can impact the bio-bed.

[TKOS]

I bought a used AquaClear Mini filter and have never had any of the premade filter packs in it as they aren't available around here. And Wal-Mart doesn't have any sponges either so I just put filter floss in and have had the same batch for 3 months that I just rinse out once a week. Water is doing fine.

[Mantis_22]

thats cool, I guess in awhile I may go for the custom made fiter thing. Its not too hard to make.

[Mantis_22]

yesterday i did tests again, no ammonia. High Nitrite and same for Nitrate. Ph hasent changed but its a lighter baby blue around 7.5. As for what I did, I syphoned 25% of the water out and changed it. Next week im gonna change the filter to a sponge.

[Mantis_22]

Today I cleaned the tank, brushed all the excess off the inner walls of the tank and syphoned. Done a 20% water change. Anyways my ammonia is 0PPM and nitrites and nitrates are still medium-high. PH is 7.5 as usual... :rolleyes:

[Mantis_22]

this afternoon im gonna syphon the tank and do tests. I hope everything is still well.