Problems getting plants to survive

[wdwmagic]

Hi there,

I'm having some problems that I hope some of you may be able to advise me on.

I am having problems getting any plants to grow and survive in the tank. They tend to be OK initially once put in the tank, but a few weeks later, they begin to rot at the base, and then snap off. Other plants have leaves that just detiorate into holes, or curl up. Another typical sympton I see is stem plants growing upwards, losing all the leaves at the bottom, and then ultimately the top leaves just curl off and die, or the stem snaps.

It's a 290 litre tank, lit with 4 T5 tubes (with reflectors) for 12 hours per day, external Eheim canister filter, 27 degrees water temp, and around 10 mid-size fish. I regularly add in Tetra Plantamin liquid fertilser, and do regular water changes every 2 weeks.

I have included a photo to show the kind of problems I am seeing.

Thanks for any tips or advice.

[phanmc]

What is the wattage on those T5 bulbs? Depending on the wattage, you may need CO2.

It looks like you're having at least potassium deficiency. Tetra Plantamin contains traces and covers the micro nutrients but it doesn't contain any macro nutrient (nitrogen, phosphate, potassium), plants need both to grow. Look for additional fertilizers like Seachem's Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium.

Reduce the light period to 8-10 hrs instead of 12, you won't see much of a benefit leaving it on the extra 2 hrs.

[Aquabum]

Have you tested your water for No3, Po4, gh, etc.?

You certainly have a deficiency of some sort, but you have to test your water to find out what may be missing.

Do you have Co2?

[djlen]

I agree with phanmc. Sounds and looks like a macro problem more than a lack of C02.
We will be of better help when you let us know your wattage.
I may be wrong but I believe 290 ltrs. translates to approx. 75 gal.U.S.?
BTW, are you sure all of your plants are submersible? Some of them look like terrestrial plants.

Len

[wdwmagic]

What is the wattage on those T5 bulbs? Depending on the wattage, you may need CO2.


Thanks for the info!

To answer your question, the T5s are 4 x 54w, at 48" length.

[wdwmagic]

Have you tested your water for No3, Po4, gh, etc.?

You certainly have a deficiency of some sort, but you have to test your water to find out what may be missing.

Do you have Co2?

I havnt done any tests yet, I will get onto that.

I dont have any Co2 running.

Thanks

[wdwmagic]

I agree with phanmc. Sounds and looks like a macro problem more than a lack of C02.
We will be of better help when you let us know your wattage.
I may be wrong but I believe 290 ltrs. translates to approx. 75 gal.U.S.?
BTW, are you sure all of your plants are submersible? Some of them look like terrestrial plants.

Len

Yes it's around 75 Gal US.

That is a very good question about the plants being submersible. They were bought from a local fish store, but none of them had any species name, so I cannot verify anything about them. I would not be entirely surprised if some of them turned out to not be proper submersible plants.

Thanks for all your help.

[phanmc]

With close to 3wpg CO2 is highly recommended, I'd say it's a necessity.

[RockabillyChick]

do you know what spectrum the lights are? they should be around 6000-7000k color temp to be the best for plants as well.

and i agree, you need CO2 and macro ferts.

[djlen]

Plants will accept any Kelvin rating between 2000K and 10,000K with no problem or detriment to growth. The difference is in the human eye and how the individual views the tank at a particular rating. The lower end is more yellow-green, the upper end more blue. Most people accept the 6500K range as closest to 'daylight' and are pleased with that color rating.

I'm assuming that you don't live in America because of your reference to metric measurements. Here many of us use this site to order dry nutrients:
http://www.gregwatson.com/DryAquaticFertilizers.asp
Unfortunately, I don't think that Greg ships overseas. You could ask to be sure however.
If not, I would look for a similar site in the U.K. or wherever you live and order
KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4 for your 3 macros. First test your tap water for N and P to be sure that you're not getting a lot of either out of the tap. Many of the Brits I converse with get a ton of P, in particular in their watter supply. No sense in ordering anything that you have at hand. Then order the nutrients that are not coming from the tap to balance and along with your trace mix you should be fine.

IMO, the need for CO2 in your tank is marginal, depending a good deal on your plant mass. No question, CO2 injection will help a great deal in any wattage, and the lighter the mass the more helpful it becomes.
Check the literature for the suitability of your present plants in a submersed environment, because I'm not convinced all of them are.
How about posting some more pics.....an over all shot of the tank would be more helpful, and some full length shot of some of the individual plants.

Len

[phanmc]

If you're in the UK, http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ sells dry ferts as well as all sorts of liquid ferts as well. If you're not sure what dry ferts to get www.gregwatson.com has a how to section that describes the estimative index, a method that's quite popular and one I use. It'll tell you what to dose so you'll know what to buy.

[wdwmagic]

I'm assuming that you don't live in America because of your reference to metric measurements.

IMO, the need for CO2 in your tank is marginal, depending a good deal on your plant mass. No question, CO2 injection will help a great deal in any wattage, and the lighter the mass the more helpful it becomes.
Check the literature for the suitability of your present plants in a submersed environment, because I'm not convinced all of them are.
How about posting some more pics.....an over all shot of the tank would be more helpful, and some full length shot of some of the individual plants.

Len

Hi Len,

Thanks for all your suggestions and info.

Yes I am in the UK, good guess! :)

Here are some more photos of the tank.

[wdwmagic]

If you're in the UK, http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/ sells dry ferts as well as all sorts of liquid ferts as well. If you're not sure what dry ferts to get www.gregwatson.com has a how to section that describes the estimative index, a method that's quite popular and one I use. It'll tell you what to dose so you'll know what to buy.

Thanks :) That's a very useful supplier, I hadnt come across that before.

From all the advice in this thread, I am going to add in the macros, and possibly the C02. I have been looking at this JBL pressurised unit. http://www.jbl.de/factmanager/frame_page.php?action=show&PageMode=2&IdType=2&Id=141
Would something like that be ideal?

[RockabillyChick]

that was a link to a pH adjusting liquid......

[djlen]

Are you sure that the link you provide is the one you intended? Exactly what is that? I'd advise strongly against pH adjusters.

As I mentioned previously, before you invest in your macros take a sample of tap water and let it gas off on the counter for a couple of hours. Then test or have it tested for pH,kH,gH,N and P. This way you will have a baseline on exactly what you're putting into the tank before adding anything and you can dose additionally to balance your elements.
The kH is important because you want a kH of at least 3.0°kH to buffer your water if you intend to inject gas in the future.
Pretty tank BTW......the bog wood is really nice.;)

Len

[RockabillyChick]

yes, very nice wood, and it will look beautiful with plants.

can i make one little suggestion though?

perhaps once you get the plants growing, take th fake planted background off and put on a solid black background. its the best way imo to show off a planted tank.

[vidiots]

Be aware that many of the additives you buy, can also have a toxic effect on a number of plants. Something like using a bottle of snail poison, medications, algaecides, will quickly melt some plants that are otherwise hard to kill and the effects can linger for some time after you've stopped using them.

[wdwmagic]

that was a link to a pH adjusting liquid......

Sorry for the confusion, that link went crazy. For some reason JBL dont seem to have persistent links.
This is the item I was meaning to link to
http://www.aquatics-online.co.uk/Z079201.asp#product500
Its called a JBL Proflora CO2 Set Profi 2.

You can also see it by going to http://www.jbl.de, and then to Our Products, Technic, Co2 Technology, and Proflora CO2 Set Profi 2.

[wdwmagic]

The kH is important because you want a kH of at least 3.0°kH to buffer your water if you intend to inject gas in the future.
Pretty tank BTW......the bog wood is really nice.;)

Len

My aquarium water so far is testing as follows.

No3 - 100 mg/l
No2 - 0 mg/l
GH - >16 degress d
KH - 3 degress d
PH - 7.2