Need to start hospital tank ASAP: Cycling question

jennfier

jennfier

..o0o..o0o..
Aug 22, 2006
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SW Ohio
www.aquariacentral.com
I just got a 10g today with Penguin biowheel 200 (someone somewhere said a filter that's bigger than needed is better than the reverse & I may upgrade to a slightly bigger tank later).

Here are what I moved from the established tank over to the new tank:
- Filter cartridge
- A couple of decorations
- A thin layer of gravel
- 7.5g of water (75% of new tank)

I have a couple of sick fish that I'd like to put in there ASAP so they won't get bothered and I can treat them more efficiently. How soon will the params be good enough to move them there ? I can add more old gravel, change more water, move a healthy fish there (rather not) and of course I can test too but I'd like to have a general idea of what's best/fastest w/o harming anything. Thanks !
 
It's fishless right now but if it's going to take weeks to establish the cycle, even if I do do water change religiously, I'm not sure my sick fish will make it. They're being picked on by the healthy fish so they don't get to eat much and will probably expire waiting. I have them in a breeder trap right now since they're not moving much but I have misgivings about the trap.

1 F molly had premature labor almost 1 week ago (about 90+ sacs, fry, part developed) and is very lethargic still. She's not eating much (sucks food in then spits back out). I've tried mosquito larvae, brine shrimp, flakes and spirulina. She seems to be getting more lethargic every day, just kind of floats around in a 45 deg angle using her pectoral fins less and less. She also seems to have broken her back during labor or something, her spin is very curved.

1 M molly was introduced last week. Was very agressive. After a few days, I put him in a breeder trap for 2 days before releasing him. He was very active after release and chased a couple of fish though he seemed to have calmed down. Noticed a female chasing him a couple of times. 2 days later, he was hiding, still eating well. Then he was nose down in a vertical position a lot. Then upside down on the bottom and has stayed that way since. Not eating. Moves fins, rapid breathing, can't stay right side up at all. I have little hope for him but want him to die in peace, not pecked to death so he's in trap - don't know if he'll die from stress in that anyway. No outward signs of injury, disease. Treating with pimafix alternating with melafix daily for 3 days now. Salt in water. Changing water almost daily in last few days. Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20 yesterday (was higher before), pH at least 7.6 (need to get high pH test kit), Ammonia 0. Don't know what else to do.

I raised temp to 82 deg in the fishless 10g.
 
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I may have an agressive F molly problem. She chases this other male around and was chasing this lyretail M when he was realeased from his timeout and right before he started hiding and got sick. She was introduced at the same time as the sick lyretail M and another dalmation M molly that she's bullying now. The healthy dalmation male now shrinks away and hides a lot though still eating.

Currently feeding fishless tank a pinch a day.
 
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I have never bothered to cycle an H tank. Firstly, it takes too much time. Secondly, many meds will kill the bacteria anyway which will actually aggravate things.

I would suggest you set up the H tank bare bottom. You can add a couple of rocks and a few plastic plants to make the fish feel more comfortable. Have an airstone or new sponge filter and a heater. Change 25% of the water every other day while medicating. If you are supposed to dose the tank on a wc day, dose after the wc. If the wc is on a non dosing day, do a 1/4 dose after the wc to replace the meds the wc removed.

When treatment is complete, bleach everything to sterilize: tank, therm., decor, airstone and the hard parts of a sponge filter (throw out and replace the sponge as bleach degrades the sponge).
 
If you put an oversized established filter on the tank, put dechlorinated water in and you're good to go. I keep extra filters running on tanks just for that reason.
Established filter= established tank. They to the majority of the work anyway:)
 
It sounds logical that if you have an old filter w/ the good bacteria on it already, combined with 75% water from old tank and old decorations that everything should pretty much remain the same, with the exception that the bio wheel is brand new (new bio wheel is wider than the old model so can't swap out). So I tested the water this morning:

Ammonia 0, Nitrite 50, Nitrate 10.

So I think I still need to wait..

One of the fish died - looking like fish tb. I'm trying not to panic.
 
The problem is when you remove the filter from the established tank, then it will spike. More filters do not equal more bacteria, they equal the same amount of bacteria spread out more.

The problem comes if you do not accurately diagnose the problem and the fish succumbs. It would be very risky to return the filter to a healthy tank as it will likely carry the disease back with it.

And what if you need to use meds that kill the bio????

Go with an uncycled tank as I outlined above and you will not regret it.
 
TwoTankAmin said:
I have never bothered to cycle an H tank. Firstly, it takes too much time. Secondly, many meds will kill the bacteria anyway which will actually aggravate things.

I would suggest you set up the H tank bare bottom. You can add a couple of rocks and a few plastic plants to make the fish feel more comfortable. Have an airstone or new sponge filter and a heater. Change 25% of the water every other day while medicating. If you are supposed to dose the tank on a wc day, dose after the wc. If the wc is on a non dosing day, do a 1/4 dose after the wc to replace the meds the wc removed.

When treatment is complete, bleach everything to sterilize: tank, therm., decor, airstone and the hard parts of a sponge filter (throw out and replace the sponge as bleach degrades the sponge).
Click to expand...


OK - I have to do a quick hospital tank too. I have decided to remove the gourami. A friend is giving me her old 10g with heater and filter. This is the route I am going to take.

How are you making out Jenn?
 
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couple thoughts here.

one keep a filter sponge going in an established tank or keep extra sponges in the filter of an established tank.

if you are medicating with anti biotics in the hospital tank , most likely you will wipe out any bacteria..in these cases you wil be doing water changes every day or so.
if treating for parasites I prefer to treat the entire tank since parasites may exist in all the fish in the tank.

when done.. you wil need to sterilize the filter sponge if you decide to re-use the sponge or just get a new sponge..since you used a spare there is room in the filter of the established tank. I keep extra sponges around anyway so if I take a sponge out of my filter I have a new one I can return to the filter. the sponge will get a new population of of bacteria in a short time.
if you take a sponge from an established tank..ypu can pretty much introduce the fish immediately (similar to using bio spira) you need to get waste in the tank asap to keep tha bacteria fed.

you may see a mini spike but it will be short lived. I use bacteria from established tanks often when starting new tanks..spikes will occur but they are short lived. on average I can take a new tank add fish and a sponge to a new filter and the cycle lasts about 4-5 days.

I use sponges in an AC70 I take out the oldest sponge replace it with a new sponge. (I use two sponges in all my ac filters)
 
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