Please help my sick fish, I am out of ideas.

Lorazoo

AC Members
May 17, 2006
291
0
0
51
Deerfield Beach, Florida
I have 2 sick fish in a Qt tank. One is a Dwarf Gourami that has an ulcer. I have been treating it for weeks with antibiotics and the ulcer is still getting worse. it looks like its healing and then it explodes bigger than before. I did a course of treatment with Furan-2 which contains Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone and a small amount of Methylene Blue Trihydrate. That didnt work so I switched to Maracyn and Maracyn-2 together. I did that 5 day tretament and no help.

The other sick fish I have is an emerald green cory cat. He has a little fungal/bacterial infection. I noticed it on his dorsal fin. So I put him in the QT tank on day 3 of the Maracyn tretament. He is also not getting any better.

I am doing a water change today and have had the tank on carbon to remove the meds so that I can try something new but do not know what to try.

Also, the tanks these guys came from are fine. I think the Gourami was stressed by being in a 40 gallon with an Angel (that's all that was in the tank). The tank the cory came from may have getten a bit dirty b/c I added a bunch of fish from quaranitine 4 days prior and the water had gotten cloudy. So, I removed the cory and did a water change and everyone else is fine.

I just do not know what else to try for these fish. Anyone have any ideas that have worked in the past?
 
there are a number of diseases that begin this way. (1) tumors or lymphocystis which are viral in origin and not treatable, (2) fish pox which is also viral and not treatable (3) various forms of ulcer disease which are caused by Pseudomonas or Aeromonas and are treatable, (4) HITH or LLE which has varied causes and treatments, (5) Costia - a parasite that nearly always causes little red hemorrhages, especially under the chin, (6) various bacterial diseases caused by such as Columnaris, (7) Neoplasm formations.

Lumps and bumps that suddenly appear are usually infections. If the disease process is due to bacteria, it usually resolves by rupture (like a boil) pretty quickly. The white liquid that oozes out is pus that is formed when the white blood cells (immune cells) die while killing bacteria (in general). NEVER TRY TO POP OR SQUEEZE THE LUMP. Like a boil in humans, squeezing can cause regurgitation of the pus into the blood stream of the fish with deadly results. It is also not a good idea to seal a draining wound unless it is bleeding. The most common bacteria which causes such lumps is Columnaris or Aeromonas.

Wounds that are white on the edges and red in the center are most typically Aeromonas. Those that are red on the edges and white in the center are generally Columnaris. Both are gram negative bacteria. the best treatment for this is any sulfa antibiotic with trimetheprim. this can be put in the water and mixed with food -- if you can find Romet B use it.

Cautionary notes: Some water conditioners can inactivate some medication. NovAqua and PolyAqua will inactivating metals and quickly inactivates potassium permanganate.

Costia treatment is best accomplished by (a) first using a salt dip to strip the slime coat, (b) treat for 3 days with Quick Cure (c) run the temp up to 86°F for 3 days and then (d) slowly lower the temp to normal at a rate of about 4 degrees over a 24 hour period.

treatment for any other 'bumps' and 'lumps' may be treated by a bath of potassium permanganate. you can often obtain this at your local pharmacy.

notes on the use of potassium permanganate. 1 drop of stock PP per gallon is equal to 2 ppm. This is the concentration used for continuous treatment. PP is usually used for 3 days, or every other day for 4 treatments. If water is not clear in 24 hours (looks yellow), change 25-30% of the water before adding another dose. Light inactivates PP. After adding the PP, watch for a minimum of 15 minutes to make sure there are no adverse reaction. Then turn off lights or cover the tank.

Some water seems to inactivate PP rapidly. It should be pink when you put it in, and stay pink for at least 4 hours to be effective.

Stock PP can be used on a swab on small wounds or patches of white "crud" on fins. It results in a chemical burn and turns the area dark. Do not use near the eyes, mouth or gills. Use as a one time application, followed by Neosporin creme or Panalog (by vet prescription).

Epizootic ulcerative syndrome caused by Apahnomyces invadans. this disease works from the inside muscle outward to the dermis/epidermis causing lesions. there has been some reported prophylactic and therapeutic success addressing this parasitic fungus using RALLY in combination with standard doses of the antibiotic Kanamycin available at shops in various formulations.

If you pursue combined RALLY/Kanamycin treatment, use it according to package label instructions, and add one dose of RALLY every 3 - 5 days. The active ingredients in RALLY are biodegradable; however, you should run carbon or a Polyfilter for a few hours (and then remove it) before adding a repeat dose.

If small fish such as gouramis don't show lesions after a period of weeks, they are probably not/no longer infected and, therefore, no longer producing infectious spores. No sores + no spores + weeks = cure(?). There isn't much known yet about latent spores ("hyphae") which may survive in the flesh. The fungus does most of its damage in the muscle tissue where the effects are not readily apparent; when the infection breaks through the epidermis and forms an open sore the water is being seeded with infectious spores. Therefore, if your fish show no visible symptoms, let's say for at least four weeks, you probably have been successful it saving them and terminating the infection cycle. However, remember that the infection is invisible during most of its cycle in any given fish: therefore what appeared to be "stopping the infection in its tracks" over a period of 10 days or so doesn't mean the infection was eradicated. Finally, a fish can have multiple tracts of infected muscle, leading ultimately to multiple sores. So, while getting one sore on a fish closed up and healed is a significant achievement, it again doesn't mean much until the fish stays clean for at least two or three weeks.

buy rally here ---> http://www.northcoastmarines.com/rally.html

Hydrogen peroxide is preferred for topical application near the mouth or gills.

http://www.glfc.org/tumor/f15b.gif
 
While a very detailed write up, i think it just confused me even more. Most of these meds you describe I do not know how to get a hold of and the one through the mail may be a bit too late. i was looking for someone who has treated this before. I hear ulcers are quite common in Gouramis. i will look for a med tomorrow with sulfa in it and try that.
 
Is there anyone out there who can help me?

I have been treating them with sulfa and a fungal treatment and see them getting worse.

The Gourami has now started a 2nd ulcer and the cory has gotten darker in color and his fins just look ragedy.

Should I stop the meds after this and just do daily water changes and add some salt?

Any suggestions?
 
Since the ulceration on the Gourami started as a wound that got worse we are most likely back to the thought of an infection of some kind. IMHO

Placing a cory in with another diseased fish in QT, part of the way through the treatment cycle with the negative results is not surprising. The treatment regime was only partially applied. Sort of like taking 3-5 days of antibiotics prescribed for 5 or more daily doses when you are sick and then saying "gosh doc, I don't get it. I am still sick.

EM based meds are not always effective. Nor are the weaker tetracychline meds.

Maracyn is a em based med. Maracyn II used to be a weakened tetracychline--not sure if it still is. It is most liely still in the same family at the very least--they keep changing that too much for me to try to keep up.

If you are in the US meds are very easy to come by. If nowhere else then at Bigalsonline.com or DrsFosterandSmith.com . Go looking for chlortetracychline or plain tetracychline, have it sent fed ex.

If you are in Canada or UK the options are mcuh more limited.

Can you get creative and talk to a local aquarium club to find a particularly good sick fish guy to come take a look see. He jsut may bring some meds or tell you what you need and can get locally. Maybe the zoo?

It is tough to diagnose problems with just a look at fish--sometimes a bacterial issue is nothing more than a secondary problem resulting from a parasitic presence. So, you can never really save the fish until you get to the root cause and around some of the symptoms.

Guessing at problems on-line is just that, guessing. So much more goes into it than the quick comments i have seen in a couple of your threads.

Once again my best guess is bacteria. Clean water and a limited amount of salt will not fix the issue. If the buggers have stood up to the maracyn/maracyn II they are a robust strain. Need something with a bit more kick. And, that will stress your fish even more--creating the need for careful attentin on your part.

Good Luck. Between here and there i am sort of tapped out. Saw dan's advice/post and thought the bases are pretty well covered if you want to make the hard call. Sometimes it is a bit of a crapshoot. Guess one way and win. Go another way and lose.
 
I got the triple sulfa meds and the fungal b/c i was told they would be the best bet for the ulcer. So I guess I will try the tetracycline next. At this point i feel i have tried 3 different meds with no luck. I know of no local aquarium groups down here to call. The reason I even come on here is that I figure someone has had a similar problem and maybe had luck with a treatment. i see that Gouramis are suseptible to ulcers but havent been able to find anyone who has been able to cure it. In most of the posts they usually die.

should I try a parasitic med along with the tetracycline?
 
many medications say they can be used together as long as its not 2 competeing antibiotics or something. for example right now i am using anti fungal and an antibiotic at the suggestion of the meds and another member.

i am really looking for suggestions as to what to do.
 
AquariaCentral.com