fin damage

[mrbranden]

Hi.

I recently acquired a large marine aquarium set-up, complete with fish. It's a bit over my head but I'm managing. I do have concerns regarding a couple of the fish...

My clown fish has some apparent fin damage. It almost looks like it has been nibbled at. My triggerfish also has some apparent damage, albeit extremely slight, on one of his rear fins.

A few days ago I had to remove my catfish from the tank all together (he's in a quarantine tank). He had splotches on his body, some fin damage, and something what appears to be a minor flesh wound(?).

These fish supposedly lived in harmony together for six months. The tank contains:

+ a domino damsel (fully grown)
+ a catfish (now quaratine)
+ tang
+ trigger
+ gobi
+ clown fish (maroon w/yellow stripes).

Is there a disease in the works? Or is this the work of a pesky fish?

Thanks!

---Branden

[MonoSebaelover]

What size tank is it? What are the water parameters (ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH and salinity)? I think it might be fin rot since the main aggressor of the group (the trigger) has it as well so I don't think it is an aggressive thing. Can you be any more specific on the types of fish (like what kind of tang, goby, trigger etc.)? If you can that will make our lives a lot easier on trying to help you figure out what is wrong.

[mrbranden]

Hi!

I have put my log online. It has my tank specs, fish, etc... The link is: http://www.zagency.org/aquarium/aquarium_log.html
I am not an artist so please don't mind the boring layout. :-)

I do not know what kind of tang it is. I looked around online and in books but I can't find one that matches it. The web page has a link to photograph of the fish.

I *think* the Gobi is a "Scooter Blennie", but I might be wrong.

There are also links to pictures of the clownfish. (On my web page, just click on the name of the fish)

You can see that some of my levels shot up, while others went down. Good in some ways, not so good in others.

I also noticed a small stringy (worm-like?) thing dangling from the Tang's pointy spine. I suppose, in theory, it could just be debris. I wouldn't bet on it though.

Any feedback in appreciated! Thanks!

[OrionGirl]

Think the tang is a scopas, and the trigger looks like a pinktail (nice!).

I'd say you have fin rot, resulting from the poor water conditions. Ammonia and nitrites should always be zero. Moving the tank seems to have caused some problems, and the tank is trying to get back in balance. I would do some serious water changes to bring those levels down, reduce feedings, and stabalize the temp--10 degree fluctuations are not helping.

[mrbranden]

I expect the temperature to remain steady. The room is warm to begin with. I do not expect the temperature to climb anymore. The other tank in the room did the same thing: shot up to the high 70s/80 and stayed there.

I should also point out that the thermometer I was using before was broken. The temperature it was reporting was consistently off by about 7 degrees. I now have double redundancy on temperature (and specific gravity). :-)

Fin rot. Blech. I was under the impression that the UV would eliminate most of that?

I'm doing a 30% water change as I speak (type). In the meantime is there a treatment of some sort I can add to the water to deal with the fin rot?

Thanks again for your help!

---Branden

[MonoSebaelover]

Close Orion but the trigger is actually what they call a white tail Trigger. Is closely related to the halfmoon. Can't think of scientific name right now but if you look in the trigger files on www.wetwebmedia.com you will find it. The tang is a Scopas. There are some common remidies made by Aquatronics available in your lfs that should treat fin rot. The medications made by Aquatronics are more ment for fw but have recommended sw dosages. Hope this helps and hope they get better. Seems like a pretty cool tank.

[OrionGirl]

One point--UV won't do anything for finrot. UV sterilizers treat parasites and other free-floating problem causes, but not anything which remains within the fish or on the fish. Fin rot is actually a bacterial infection that effects teh fish when they are stressed by other factors (ie, internal parasites, ammonia-nitrites, poor feeding, high stress from inappropriate tank mates). It's kind of like if you let your skin dry out really bad, and it cracks and bleeds. Problem enough, but if not treated, it will become infected. Similar case with fin rot.

[mrbranden]

Thank you everyone for your ongoing support.

I did a 30% water change in hopes that it would help things. Unfortunately, test results taken 20 hours after the water change indicate that ammonia levels stayed the same and nitrate levels are UP.

I tested the water that comes from the tap. It reports negligible ammonia levels.

Here's what happened:

Test -- before/after
pH - 8.4/8.3
Alk - 2.5/2.7
NO2 - 0.03/0.15 ppm
NO3 - 3.0/7.0 ppm
Ca - 400/350
PO4 - 0.2/0.15 ppm
NH3/NH4 - 0.2 ppm 0.2ppm
Specific Gravity - 1.024/1.0225
Temp - 81/81

My notes can also be seen here:

http://www.zagency.org/aquarium/aquarium_log.html

Did I mess up somehow? Is this to be expected?

Thanks again everyone!

[MonoSebaelover]

That is really odd that the levels would go up since you are removing water which is removing ammonia and nitrate. It seems the tank has not fully cycled since you still have Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. I would do another 30 gallon water change in a day or two and see if that helps any. Just try doing anything right now to get the levels down or else the tang will more than likely break out with ich. Hope this helps and hope you get your levels down.

[OrionGirl]

If you are on treated water (ie, utility uses chlorine or chloramines), and you are using a prdouct that removes chloramines, you'll need to check the product description and your ammonia test kit. Products like amquel bind the ammonia into a non-toxic compound that doesn't hurt your fish but can still be utilized by bacteria. The problem is that some test kits don't distinguish between the non-toxic version of ammonia and the toxic version. In a cycled tank, this can result in false-positive results. In a cycling tank, it can make it hard to determine the true state of the cycle in your aquarium.

Search in Freshwater Newbies for more--there are several threads in there that specify the test kits and such. This is just a stabin the dark, but could explain why your ammonia test results are fluctuating so much.

[mrbranden]

I actually own several ammonia test kits, but they were used on my freshwater tank. Will an ammonia test kit for a freshwater tank produce accurate results on a marine tank? (Maybe I should read the box. Lazy me!)

I do not have an RO unit, but I do treat my water with a tap water conditioner to help dechlronate it. I have never used AmQuel or any variant of it in this tank.

The tap water conditioner I use is "Super Strength Tap Water Conditioner" (original, huh?) by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Description:
+ Removes chlorine from tap water
+ Instantly detoxifies heavy metals from tap water
+ Breaks the chloramine bond

I should also point out that the previous owner of the tank rinsed off his bio-balls before giving me the unit. Wouldn't that have effectively ruined them, causing me to have to re-cycle all over again?

Thanks again for reading!

[MonoSebaelover]

Generally most freshwater test kits do not work on saltwater which might explain the ammonia, but if the previous owner washed the bio balls out then the tank is probably re-cycling. Also did the balls dry out? If they did then all the bacteria is dead. Amquel is made by Kordon along with NovAqua, Polyaqua among others. Amquel is the best to use because it gets rid of chlorines, chloramines, ammonia, and heavy metals. I always use either Amquel or NovAqua, depending on how much of each I have.

[mrbranden]

Yes, I believe the balls dried out. They must have.

Should I use some AmQuel? Or should I let it cycle as is? I've heard several different answers to this question.

Thanks!