New Guy Planting Questions

NGerdes

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Jan 19, 2003
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I'm going to start setting up a planted aquarium this weekend. I have ordered Flourite and Sand from Big Al's that should be here tomorrow. Here's my question, what is the best way to do this for my plants. Do I mix the Flourite and the Sand 50/50, or do I put down the Flourite with the sand on top, or do I mix the Flourite and Sand 50/50 then a thinner layer of the sand on top to hide the flourite? I bout a nice pure white sand and want that to be the focus without the flourite showing through, but don't want it to hurt my plants.

I'm doing a DIY co2. Will I need a regulator of some kind in order to not sufficate my fish? Or can I control it by just controling yeast amounts?

Also, I am doing a fishless cycling, at what point should I add the plants, before cycling, after cycling, during cycling???

Thanks.
 
Can you give us some info on your water(pH,gH,kH)? Since you have not set up your tank these would be your water measurements out of the tap. Now, what size tank are you setting up? What kind of lighting will it have? With answers to the above questions we will know a lot more about what to advise you on.
As to your questions. You can put down a layer of flourite with sand on top, but over a period of time the two substrates will end up mixing together and you'll have a mixture of the two. It's really difficult to keep them separate, especially when you have live plants that will occasionally need moving and/or pruning. IMO mixing the two would be best for the plants, but depending on how fine the sand is you can lay it in any way you want to. I say that because a really fine/dense sand is not as good a substrate for the roots. It compacts on them and they can't breath as well.
For DIY CO2 you don't use a regulator. Again, knowing the size of your tank would help here. DIY consists of a 2-liter soda bottle and an air line going into your tank to supply the CO2. It's a very simple set up. The amount of CO2(number of bottles) depends on tank size.
Many people do fishless cycling by loading up their tank with as many plants as possible. Fast growing, nutrient eating, plants are inexpensive and my suggestion would be to get as many as you can afford, to stuff in there. I use them along with floating plants(salvinia, riccia etc.). They will "cycle" the tank for you in a relatively short period of time. If you have access to an established tank(one of yours or a friend who has one, or your LFS) ask them for some substrate from their tank, put the substrate in a nylon bag and put the bag into your filter. The nutrifying bacteria in that "used" substrate will multiply and cycle your tank in a fraction of the time it will take without it.
So give us the info I asked for above and we can go from there.
Len
 
I agree with Len on this. I went ahead and mixed the sand and flourite 50/50 in my planted tank. IMHO it looks really good. Almost natural. Just make sure you rinse both as best as you can. It will still have some cloudiness at first, but will settle after a few days. If you do a search through the plant forum for rinsing sand and flourite you'll get some good ideas on how to do it.

For cycling I followed what LEN told you and it worked out great.

If you click on my Tank Specs link at the bottom you can go to my 20 gal to get an idea what the substate mix will look like if just mixed together.

Good luck,

Dave
 
Well, I'm at work right now, so I will give you what I can on the tank. 29 gal, PH ~ 7.3-7.4 GH is kind of high, around th 10-12 mark. I have not done a test on KH, but have the kit and will test it tonight. I haven't gotten the sand yet, but I'm guessing it is kind of a fine sand, but not too fine I hope. Lighting is also not actually in yet (another project for this weekend) but I will have about 80 watts, which will be around 2.76 watt/gal. This might be a little much though, because I will be growing anubias and crypts, and maybe an amazon sword, which I don't think that much light is necassary. And I have my eye on a filter at Big Al's which is looking pretty nice. Eheim (sp) 300 I think.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing (first planted tank if you couldn't tell) My plan for this weekend is to just get the substrate in the tank with some water, just to give it some time to settle and clear up a little before I start in with the actual setting up process.
 
Ok, now we have a somewhat better idea of what we're looking at. Yes, 2.76watt/gal is on the high side(just my thought, others will tell you it's just fine) for starters especially for the plants you describe. But it's definately workable. I can't stress enough how important it is to load it with as many plants as possible initially, and get some substrate for your filter, from another established tank. Let things settle for a few days, let the plants get somewhat established for a few more, and you can then add A FEW fish. You will need them to supply the ammonia to start the ball rolling on your cycle. By keeping your fish load down and having patience you may not even notice a cycle. The plants will eat up the ammonia and nitrites and at the same time the nutrifying bactreria will colonize itself in your filter and in your substrate. Anubias and crypts are great plants, but IMO are not terrific "nutrient eaters", so you'll need to get the fast growing stuff at the start.
You can start a bottle of yeast and sugar as soon as the water clears and the plants are in. It will help the plants establish themselves quicker.
Pick up a 5 gal. paint strainer at Home Depot...put it over the top of a 5 gal. paint bucket and put the sand in it and wash it under the hose til the water comes clean. THEN do the same with the flourite. Flourite comes out at the beginning, looking like coffee, there's so much silt, but keep washing it and it'll run "clear". Put it all into the tank and then put some newspaper or a large plate on top of it to cut down on turbulance and fill the tank with water. If you fill and then dump in the substrate it'll take longer to clear. Just my opinion, again.
Just curious......any thoughts about what kind of fish?
Len
 
Ok, now we have a somewhat better idea of what we're looking at. Yes, 2.76watt/gal is on the high side(just my thought, others will tell you it's just fine) for starters especially for the plants you describe. But it's definitely workable. I can't stress enough how important it is to load it with as many plants as possible initially, and get some substrate for your filter, from another established tank. Let things settle for a few days, let the plants get somewhat established for a few more, and you can then add A FEW fish. You will need them to supply the ammonia to start the ball rolling on your cycle. By keeping your fish load down and having patience you may not even notice a cycle. The plants will eat up the ammonia and nitrites and at the same time the nutrifying bacteria will colonize itself in your filter and in your substrate. Anubias and crypts are great plants, but IMO are not terrific "nutrient eaters", so you'll need to get the fast growing stuff at the start.
You can start a bottle of yeast and sugar as soon as the water clears and the plants are in. It will help the plants establish themselves quicker.
Pick up a 5 gal. paint strainer at Home Depot...put it over the top of a 5 gal. paint bucket and put the sand in it and wash it under the hose til the water comes clean. THEN do the same with the flourite. Flourite comes out at the beginning, looking like coffee, there's so much silt, but keep washing it and it'll run "clear". Put it all into the tank and then put some newspaper or a large plate on top of it to cut down on turbulence and fill the tank with water. If you fill and then dump in the substrate it'll take longer to clear. Just my opinion, again.
Just curious......any thoughts about what kind of fish?
Len
 
One more thing......when you do your kH test, fill the vial to 10mm of water instead of the recommended 5mm. Then when you count drops to measure, 2 drops will equal a point instead of 1 drop. So, if you count 10 drops for the color to change your kH is 5. I think the test is more accurate this way than the suggested 5mm way with 1 drop per point.
And you'll find that kH is very important when using CO2.
Len
 
Actually, for the cleaning of the sand and substrate, I heard that an old pillowcase works really well. Just put the sand in the pillowcase and let the water run constatly through the sand and case. You would need to empty out and refill a couple times just to make sure you get everything, but if you don't think it would work, I'll try something else. So should I start out mixing the sand and flourite together or should I layer them?

So if I dropped from a 80W bulb to a 60W (~2 Watt/gal) that might be better?

I already have an established 10 gal tank (running for over 1 year) which I was going to use to "seed" the tank.

I have 3 Gourami's in the 10 gal that I might move over to the 29. This is what I have been contemplating....

New 29
2-3 Rams
6 Rasbora
1 Rainbow Shark
1 Bristlenose
3-4 Cories/Loaches (I want Kuhli, but not sure if I can find them)

Might add the 3 Gourami's too. This may be a heavily stocked tank, but nothing is defanite yet. Because I live in the middle of no where this is always subject to what I can find at the stores. I was thinking of moving the Gourami's, so I could use my 10 gal as a quarintine/hospital tank, with maybe a few guppies or danios to keep it cycled or somthing.

But what about the co2. How much, with my higher KH and PH will I need to add? I'm afraid of suficating my fish.

Any other advice from this now???
 
I would wash the sand first...it'll be easier to clean and tell when it's clear. Then the flourite which will look like coffee. Be patient it'll come clean. The pillow thing sounds like it'll work.
What kind of filter are you running in the 10? You can use the filter material in that to seed the new tank as well as some of the substrate.
If you load the 29 up with plants and let them establish themselves a bit, you can put the gouramis in. Just give everything a chance to settle and get established first.
Without knowing your kH I wouldn't advise about CO2. Get that reading and we can go from there. Judging by the figures you gave on pH and gH I think you'll be fine for the one bottle of CO2 mix, but check the kH first. kH is a measure of the stability of your water. If it measures 3-4 or higher the fish will be fine. If not you can always raise it.
Len
 
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